Amazon reports strong sales of HD DVD and Blu-ray standalones

Thats no suprise. Amazon is the only place I buy Blu-Ray movies. I refuse to pay more than $20 including shipping so Amazon is the place for me. Tons of Blu-Ray movies for 19.99 w/ free shipping.

Amazon is site i frequent for movies/music, etc. Claiming to have sold that many next-gen players certainly wouldn't suprise me.

I bit the bullet and bought a toshiba HD-D3 for $100. I figured that for $100 and 7 movies it would be worth it, and I've had my 46in aquos for 6 months and haven't used it over 720p. This specific player only does 1080i but I have to say that I'm very satisfied. The only complaint that I have is that it takes about 20 seconds for it to load a movie. I live in Canada and this particular HD player was sold out at everywhere I visited. This HD battle looks like it's going to last a long time, I can't wait for dual format players to become mainstream so that I can have more choice.

HD DVD titles currently hold the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th spots in all DVD's on Amazon.

The Toshiba HD A3 is currently the No.1 DVD player (and it and the HD A2 have been for most of 2007); the HD A30 is No. 2; the HD A35 is No.6.

The Samsung BDP 1400 & Sony S300 despite recent price cuts are only number 13 & 15.

The HD A3 is currently holding at #5 in Amazon's 'all electronics' chart, the HD A30 is 20 and the HD A35 is 83.

Conversely, NO Blu-Ray players appear in the top 100.

It's also interesting to point out some of the background facts to this high def movie disc marketing.

The BDA has sponsored over TWENTY BOGO sales already in 2007.

Meanwhile HD DVD has just run their first TWO this very month (usually with a very restricted listing).

It's also a fact that Blu-Ray BOGO's have included huge blockbuster films like the Pirates Of the Caribbean films, Casino Royale, Night At the Museum, X-Men: Last Stand, and many others.
They've also included recent releases like 28 Weeks Later, The Fly, Day After Tomorrow just a mere 2 weeks after their debut.

Wow Hugh, someone needs to get you a flag. I realize you're trying to be objective, but you obviously are going out of your way to only give objective positive news about HD-DVD. You try to make it seem like there is no good news for BluRay. Unfortunately, that is incorrect. Both sides have things to stand up on their little platforms. Both formats are acceling and the winner is not even close to being defined. Taking sides at this point is just stupid.

Originally posted by Ludikhris:

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Wow Hugh, someone needs to get you a flag. I realize you're trying to be objective, but you obviously are going out of your way to only give objective positive news about HD-DVD. You try to make it seem like there is no good news for BluRay. Unfortunately, that is incorrect. Both sides have things to stand up on their little platforms. Both formats are acceling and the winner is not even close to being defined. Taking sides at this point is just stupid.

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CES08 Jan 7 going to tell if either format going to be around for a while.If movies studios move toward BD then i will keep supporting BD but if no news note worthy then i will invest in a HD-DVD player & go format neutral.Alot of people are saying that CES08 is going to be the telling point to where either format is going.I can't wait.

so the end of the "end in sight" has ended?
LOL

back to the never ending format grind :P

Originally posted by Ludikhris:

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but you obviously are going out of your way to only give objective positive news about HD-DVD.

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- Why not?

There's precious little sign of anyone else putting the counter-points.

Feel free to show me a single fact in what I said that was wrong, if you can.
Fact is you can't.

What I said was 100% accurate, up-to-date and right on the money.

Originally posted by Ludikhris:

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You try to make it seem like there is no good news for BluRay.

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- Er, no.

Blu-ray have plenty enough people out talking up whatever 'good news' they think they have.

Why should I add to their 'work'?

Originally posted by Ludikhris:

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Taking sides at this point is just stupid.

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- I disagree.

There are fundamental issues with blu-ray that IMO render it absolutely anti-consumer and something worth challenging at every and any opportunity.

The intent/strategy behind Blu-ray (in terms of their declared aim of restoring profit margins to early DVD levels), the additional DRM Blu-ray carries over HD DVD, Blu-ray's regional coding and the incomplete specs to name just a few concrete objections to the format.

I see the latest Nielson stats show the Blu-ray margin well off the old claimed levels of 4:1; 3:1; and even 2:1 levels.
It's currently (a shrinking) 1.56:1.

I'm so looking forward to CES 2008.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Ludikhris:

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but you obviously are going out of your way to only give objective positive news about HD-DVD.

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- Why not?

There's precious little sign of anyone else putting the counter-points.

Feel free to show me a single fact in what I said that was wrong, if you can.
Fact is you can't.

What I said was 100% accurate, up-to-date and right on the money.

Originally posted by Ludikhris:

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You try to make it seem like there is no good news for BluRay.

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- Er, no.

Blu-ray have plenty enough people out talking up whatever 'good news' they think they have.

Why should I add to their 'work'?

Originally posted by Ludikhris:

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Taking sides at this point is just stupid.

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- I disagree.

There are fundamental issues with blu-ray that IMO render it absolutely anti-consumer and something worth challenging at every and any opportunity.

The intent/strategy behind Blu-ray (in terms of their declared aim of restoring profit margins to early DVD levels), the additional DRM Blu-ray carries over HD DVD, Blu-ray's regional coding and the incomplete specs to name just a few concrete objections to the format.

I see the latest Nielson stats show the Blu-ray margin well off the old claimed levels of 4:1; 3:1; and even 2:1 levels.
It's currently (a shrinking) 1.56:1.

I'm so looking forward to CES 2008.

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HD DVD has region coding...... its gign to be put into effect soon so thats a non issues..... sony sold off BD+ making the DRM aspect a non issue until sony buys out macro vision...

Currently these are non isues you can toss BD+/DRM into the "incomplete specs" pile.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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HD DVD has region coding...... its gign to be put into effect soon so thats a non issues.

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- Not true Zippy.

Who told you that?
HD DVD's regional coding options remain mere theoretical possibilities, there are no actual plans to impose it at all (and there is certainly no timetable for that to happen).

For HD DVD to even begin the process of implementing it's regional coding it would first of all need agreement of the DVD Forum, that has never happened
and is not going to happen, why would they choose to give up such an obvious advantage now?
(and this is despite Blu-ray fans pretending that every impending meeting of the DVD Forum since HD DVD appeared was going to do so).

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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sony sold off BD+ making the DRM aspect a non issue until sony buys out macro vision.

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- Zippy you have got to be kidding.

BD+ is absolutely not a "non issue" at all.

It does not matter that it has been sold off. It matters that Blu-ray promote themselves specifically with it.

The fact remains that BD+ has not been cracked, is still there and is purpose designed from the outset to be infinitely adjusted should it be cracked.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Currently these are non isues you can toss BD+/DRM into the "incomplete specs" pile.

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- I think you are deeply misinformed Zippy.

Regional coding is a non-issue for HD DVD and it is very much an issue for Blu-ray.

There is not a single regionally coded HD DVD release right now and there is absolutely no evidence of the HD DVD publishers moving to impose high def regional coding, whatsoever.

Blu-ray regional coding is a 'live' issue and a fact of life, right now, for Blu-ray.

HD DVD's DRM (AACS) has been cracked twice and is currently cracked.

AACS has been broken on Blu-ray but BD+ has not.
BD+ is very much a current issue for Blu-ray.

Originally posted by hughjars:

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I see the latest Nielson stats show the Blu-ray margin well off the old claimed levels of 4:1; 3:1; and even 2:1 levels.
It's currently (a shrinking) 1.56:1.

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One week not going to improve a whole year worth of work.The overall picture is still the same Hughjars nothing has changed.

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending December 16th

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...3007/index.php

WE: BD-61% HDD-39% YTD: BD-65% HDD-35% SI: BD-62% HDD-38%


As you can see the year to date hasn't changed & not going to change until HD-DVD start winning some weeks from BD which isn't going to happen because BD won every week this year.Maybe we will have a clear picture after CES08 & I'm betting we will.

the only way hd-dvd can win is if microsoft pays some more studios to go exclusive.warner has realized its loss and we will see what result will occur @ CES.

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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One week not going to improve a whole year worth of work.

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- If anyone cares to check they'd see that the 1.56:1 number works out to the 'since inception' figure too.

Anyone following the numbers all year would also know that HD DVD has recovere3d from a low-point in this year of approx 75:25 to the now 60:40 number we see.

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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The overall picture is still the same Hughjars nothing has changed.

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- Well here's something we might have agreed upon (except you don't mean it this way at all).

The numbers of discs sold - at less than 4% of the total disc market - are so tiny that the typical Blu-ray tactic of trying to make mountains out of them is just ridiculous.

They are not what people like Warner said they were interested in.

Warner said they were interested in seeing how the numbers looked for Q4 of 2007.

It's HD DVD that has come out of Q4 of 2007 showing that it's attachment rates do matter and that despite Blu-ray's 10:1+ lead in players they cannot even hold their old 2:1 advantage in sales.

A 10:1+ advantage in player numbers holding a 1.56:1 lead is pathetic.

Blu-ray have simply bought every week with BOGOs (20 Blu-ray BOGOs to 2 HD DVD BOGOs this year) - adding even further significant costs to the already more expensive format.

Yes indeed, CES 2008 is going to be very illuminating
(and some people are in for a shock, count on it).

@ Hughjars
I don't see the point in showing Blu-Ray hardware outnumbering Hd-DVD by 10:1 when everyone and their dog knows that the majority of Blu-Ray players out there are PS3 game consoles.
A 1.56:1 lead would be pathetic if it were not for the fact that most people with PS3's out there don't even have a HD TV thus don't buy Blu-Ray movies.
What the 1.56:1 figure perhaps proves is that those that are buying Blu-Ray movies are infact not playing games at all!

Originally posted by ChromeMud:

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@ Hughjars
I don't see the point in showing Blu-Ray hardware outnumbering Hd-DVD by 10:1

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- The point is (as always) to confront the empty-headed brigade who believe and spread that idiotic nonsense the Blu-ray gang specialise in like for instance claims that HD DVD is dead or dying or the all-time-classic ridiculous stupidity - 'we already won!'.

@ hughjars

IC.I agree with you that HD-DVD is far from dead and both formats are struggling to take off.I don't see this war ending soon for one moment.Blu-Ray have definitely been the most embarrasing in all this mess stating early wins and what not.
I'm also against the anti-consumer DRM and region locking.It would be in everybody's interests if Blu-Ray became more consumer friendly.
I'm waiting for a Chinese HD-DVD player so I can have the best of both worlds,dual players are an expensive joke at the moment.

good on you amazon keep up the good work.

Originally posted by hughjars:

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Warner said they were interested in seeing how the numbers looked for Q4 of 2007.

It's HD DVD that has come out of Q4 of 2007 showing that it's attachment rates do matter and that despite Blu-ray's 10:1+ lead in players they cannot even hold their old 2:1 advantage in sales.

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Cmon Hugh you know you don't believe that logic yourself.No CE going to base its future off one QT & that QT HD-DVD still didn't improve on any sells.No matter how you twist it bend it the facts still the same right now BD own the majorty of the HD share & it hasn't been close in other country's Eur,Jap,& Aus.

Originally posted by hughjars:

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Blu-ray have simply bought every week with BOGOs (20 Blu-ray BOGOs to 2 HD DVD BOGOs this year) - adding even further significant costs to the already more expensive format.

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So what happen from Jan 1 07 until last summer when BD seen its first BOGO sales.BD out sold HD-DVD without bogo sells also.

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending April 29th

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...0607/index.php

WE: BD-71% HDD-29% YTD: BD-68% HDD-32% SI: BD-58% HDD-42%

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending May 27th

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...0307/index.php

WE: BD-69% HDD-31% YTD: BD-67% HDD-33% SI: BD-58% HDD-42%

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending June 24th

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...0107/index.php

WE: BD-70% HDD-30% YTD: BD-67% HDD-33% SI: BD-59% HDD-41%


This makes your point a non issue show me where BD needed help from Jan to june from Bogo's to outsell HD-DVD.

Originally posted by ChromeMud:

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I don't see the point in showing Blu-Ray hardware outnumbering Hd-DVD by 10:1 when everyone and their dog knows that the majority of Blu-Ray players out there are PS3 game consoles.

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So if PS3 which is a multimedia console still give Blu-Ray the advantage over HD-DVD standalones then that says alot about the poor state that HD-DVD is in.What going to happen when the BD players drop down to 100 & 200 bucks? HD-DVD going to face even more pressure(If its not dead after CES08) with there players already priced at that point & has fail to give HD-DVD any kind of software edge.

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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Cmon Hugh you know you don't believe that logic yourself.

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- I'm much more prepared to listen to what they themselves actually said.
You are only putting forward your own little theories because what they themselves have actually said runs contrary to your preferred ideas.

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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No CE going to base its future off one QT

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- Of course not.

They are going to base their decisions on the facts of what happened (facts about their costs and profitability you do not have access to) trends and profitability.
All of which are areas where HD DVD scores very nicely over Blu-ray.

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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HD-DVD still didn't improve on any sells.

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- Why do you keep lying about this.

HD DVD has recovered from a low point at the start of this year of about 75:25 to today's 60:40.

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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No matter how you twist it bend it the facts still the same right now BD own the majorty of the HD share

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- .....and no matter how you keep trying to twist and ignore the facts the truth is that at this very early stage that lead Blu-ray has generated is shrinking and in any event considering their 10:1 + advantage in players has only resulted in a 1.56:1 lead.

Despite 20 Blu-ray BOGOs to HD DVDs 2.

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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it hasn't been close in other country's Eur,Jap,& Aus.

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- The numbers are minute enough in the USA without you pretending that they are significant anywhere else.
Wise up.

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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So what happen from Jan 1 07 until last summer when BD seen its first BOGO sales.BD out sold HD-DVD without bogo sells also.

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- We know from Viacom/Paramount's comments that Blu-ray has been subsidised since the start.

Whether it's BOGOs or distorted costings the net result is the same, an artificial attempt to rig the market.

S'funny how you never hear the Blu-ray gang call for movie studio neutrality and genuinely letting the consumer decide.

The Blu-ray gang are only interested in seeing HD DVDs studios go to them, never a genuinely neutral and 'fair' market.

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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This makes your point a non issue show me where BD needed help from Jan to june from Bogo's to outsell HD-DVD.

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- 20 BOGOs to 2 - and those 2 HD DVD BOGOs were only in Dec 2007.

FFS, wake up. Who are you trying to kid, huh?

All year we had the Blu-ray/PS3 fanclub telling us 'this is it!' whenever a Blu-ray (often not really) exclusive came out, whether it wast he Pirates movies or the Bond movie or the Spiderman movies.

Yet not one of them actually managed to be 'it' at all.

LMAO.

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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So if PS3 which is a multimedia console still give Blu-Ray the advantage over HD-DVD standalones then that says alot about the poor state that HD-DVD is in.

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- Only the most determinedly dense is incapable of seeing that a game console, from a globally huge brand name, with it's Blu-ray drive/player built in and guaranteed to sell quickly in multi-millions wouldn't give Blu-ray a boost.

(Even if it did turn out to be a relative flop in it's own market.)

The only funny part is how poor and weak a boost it has been.

10:1 = 1.56:1.

That's not good, that's the sort of 'not good' people notice and keep at the forefront of their minds when making the kind of big decisions that are about to make.

Even in 2007 alone the BDA can only claim (on their own last figures) Blu-ray movie disc sales of 4 million to 2.7 million HD DVD disc sales = 2:1.35 .

It's also amusing to note that not one of those numbers are even remotely close to the 4:1, 3:1 & 2:1 claims the Blu-ray/PS3 fanclub have been spouting all year.

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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What going to happen when the BD players drop down to 100 & 200 bucks?

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- LMAO.

When's that going to be then, huh?

The least expensive Blu-ray players you can manage to point to are remnant stocks of dead (seriously bad rep & buggy) Samsung players (the BDP 1000, 1200 & 1400) and the ancient Sony S300.
All of which are poorly spec'd 'profile 1.0' players.....and even so all of which retail at a higher price that the 3rd generation 1080p Toshiba HD A30/EP30.

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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HD-DVD going to face even more pressure

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- LMAO.

The 'HD DVD China' launches in March 2008, a tidal wave of (regularly priced, not season special) $100 DVD players that upscale very nicely and also happen to play HD DVD are on the way as those manufacturers withdraw their (still strongly selling - see the Black Friday numbers for proof, regular DVD outsold both high def formats by a country mile) DVD players.

BTW HD DVD sold out of the $98 season special HD DVD players so it's already very well known they will be a hit in the marketplace when they arrive.

It's Blu-ray that will be the one under pressure and totally unable to compete in the mainstream a/v mass-market.

A market for which the over-priced game console is never going to (and can never) 'take'.

What have they got below $400 that is genuinely a profile 1.1 player?
Nothing.
The best you can point to is a $400 PS3 and the hope that they're still running a discount on a Panasonic DMP-BD30 that keeps it around that price.

....and what else? Get back to me on that one, eh? LMAO.

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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(If its not dead after CES08)

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- Just under 2wks to go.

Boy are you in for a shock.

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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with there players already priced at that point & has fail to give HD-DVD any kind of software edge.

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- Don't be obtuse.

You had a year where not only did Blu-ray use BOGO 20 times to HD DVD's 2 but they Blu-ray also tried to generate a little steam with umteen supposedly 'blockbuster' movies (all aimed at the so-called 'PS3 demographic').

Movies like the Pirates Of the Caribbean films, Casino Royale, Night At the Museum, X-Men: Last Stand, and many others.

They've also included several recent releases in their BOGO promotions like 28 Weeks Later, The Fly, Day After Tomorrow just a mere 2 weeks after their debut.

.....and yet here we are at the end of Q4 2007 and despite all of this and a 10:1+ advantage in players, Blu-ray still can only generate a 1.56:1 lead in movie discs.

Quite clearly (to anyone not determined to keep the Blu-shades welded on) it's HD DVD that shifts movies and with HD DVD about to hit price-points Blu-ray can only dream of it's HD DVD that will end up winning this little war.

Blu-ray is on the way to just being another stagnate proprietary game console format with a relatively tiny amount of standalone & PC burner activity tacked on.

I'm so looking forward to the CES 2008 news breaking, just remember I told you so, eh?

First, I do not (yet) have a dog in this fight, I still just buy and enjoy regular DVDs. However I do like reading all the Banter between the Blue-Ray and HD camps.
Being in the Tech field, I usually prefer to side with the better "tech" solution, and in-fact initially thought the BR would be the way to go, albeit I was fully intending on keeping my purchasing dollars with regular DVD until one or the other becomes the dominant format. To date I have not read anything, here or other reliable sources, to indicate either has become dominant or even a safe bet. But I do have to say, currently it appears to me the HD side seams to have more momentum, and better, clearer evidence to support momentum building for the HD.

That being my "observation" Here are a few points I believe are not being made, or will contribute to one one format eventually putting the other out of business:

1) Anyone remember DVD vs Divx discs? The better "value" won out, not marketing, or the the studios wanted, especially a few against the many.

2) Can anyone point to a superior technology beating out a slightly less superior option where the better option was more expensive? Beta vs VHS, RePlay vs Tivo, Cable Modem vs DSL. The average, ie vast majority, of consumers will go for the better "value" every time. Lower cost players, lower cost discs, no region codes, lower cost for rental operators, more durable discs, vs what, a bit more capacity, a fancier Logo, Disney cartoons, Sony hardware?

3) You don't have to be a Microsoft fan to understand this is one battle they are in for the long hall to win, and when MS "commits" to win, they will win. Couple that with the fact the Apple is with them and not in the "other" camp and..., well you get the point.

4) Name the last time "Sony" tried to create a dominant format and won? They are a great hardware MFG, NOT a format innovator! Yes PS2 had its glory days, but when MS, and even Nintendo "wanted" in that space, Sony could do little to prevent it.

5) I spend plenty on DVDs, media and related hardware, along with the well mature interoperability with computers and software. I have a sizable investment and it still does the job I desire of it, and it is all very affordable. I continue to upgrade and expand. Neither BR or HD has yet to give me a reason to even begin to consider one over the other.

That is my 2 cents worth.