Windows 7 will include virtual Windows XP Mode

So instead of running XP and my program, I now have to run Xp, My program AND the horribly Bloated Resource hogging Windows 7?

Oh yeah, I cannot wait to sign up!

if you want to run Xp then JUST BUY XP, Dont Buy W7!!..Simple isnt it? Im tired of all the complaining on this site.

Well Done Microsoft! I don't say that too often...lol. This is a fantastic tool. I hate not being able to run all my old favourite programs and games etc.. everytime I have to upgrade to a new PC running a new operating system. This is just awesome! I'm still running Windows XP which in my opinion is Microsoft's best OS to date. I have purposely skipped the bloated Windows Vista for that reason and I've been very encouraged by Windows 7 reviews. This could be the best yet! I look forward to my future upgrade to Windows 7. Fantastic!

An OS inside of an OS, its like those Russian Nesting Dolls.

we should take to the max. W7 runs a VM of vista, the vista VM runs a VM of XP, the VM XP runs a VM of 2000, the VM 2000 runs a VM of ME,the VM ME runs a VM of 98, the VM of 98 runs a VM of 95, the VM of 95 runs a VM of 3.1,and the VM of 3.1 runs a VM of DOS.

FYI W7 is Not Vista. W7 is nowhere near the resource hog Vista is.

I would hardly call them having to use a virtual OS for backwards compatibility a success of any kind. It just goes to show how little effort Microsoft puts into compatibility; they seem to think products should be built to work on them rather then vice versa; very ignorant and arrogant business platform.

Originally posted by canuckerz:

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I would hardly call them having to use a virtual OS for backwards compatibility a success of any kind. It just goes to show how little effort Microsoft puts into compatibility; they seem to think products should be built to work on them rather then vice versa; very ignorant and arrogant business platform.

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Very sagely words !


Jo

Originally posted by BazNZ:

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Well Done Microsoft! I don't say that too often...lol. This is a fantastic tool. I hate not being able to run all my old favourite programs and games etc.. everytime I have to upgrade to a new PC running a new operating system. This is just awesome! I'm still running Windows XP which in my opinion is Microsoft's best OS to date. I have purposely skipped the bloated Windows Vista for that reason and I've been very encouraged by Windows 7 reviews. This could be the best yet! I look forward to my future upgrade to Windows 7. Fantastic!

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The only trouble is VM is software based emulation and is unable to use hardware correctly so DX is crippled and it can't find your video card......

oh my lol, you peopel complain too much, win7 is vista witha face lift. and vista 64 bti was the best OS MS put out IMO.

"nesting" XP in W7 is a nice idea.

You can also "nest" XP in Linux using VirtualBox so then you can run both linux and xp applications "natively"

Microsoft is trying to learn from the mistakes with Vista.
Sure, they haven't learn about having multiple personality disorder just to make more money. Business, Server and Home are enough versions. Ubuntu 9.04 has the Server, the Desktop and a custom one for NetBooks called Alternative.

I loved using W7 64-bit beta until a software update rendered the machine unusable as it BSoD'd after the startup chime.

tricks like this worked for os9 in OSx

Originally posted by shaffaaf:

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oh my lol, you peopel complain too much, win7 is vista witha face lift. and vista 64 bti was the best OS MS put out IMO.

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stop calling it a Face lift when it is not, they have revised the core.

Vista's Core Sucked balls anyway you look at it.

Originally posted by shaffaaf:

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oh my lol, you peopel complain too much, win7 is vista witha face lift. and vista 64 bti was the best OS MS put out IMO.

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Actualy, XP64 is their best so far...the only problem is that driver support is all but non-existant, and the drivers that do exist are almost all beta and/or buggy.

This is nothing new; virtual machine is already in use on vista machines to run programs that work on 98/2000/XP but not on vista. The only difference is that they do the setup for you. There is a big problem with virtual machine that this does not seem to address...you cannot run 64-bit operating systems on microsoft's VM. That means that they are cutting backwards compatability for XP64 and Vista64, at least to a certain extent.

What I don't understand is: Why include a pre-compiled XP virtual machine, and not a pre-compiled win9x virtual machine? For that matter, Microsoft does not care how much space it's products use, so it might as well come with a Win2000 VM image as well.

Originally posted by Lothros:

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So instead of running XP and my program, I now have to run Xp, My program AND the horribly Bloated Resource hogging Windows 7?

Oh yeah, I cannot wait to sign up!

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Don't be ridiculous and make comments about stuff you know nothing about. Windows 7 is the farthest from bloated. I'm an engineer and administrator working for a company that is 1 of only 60 in the world that are National Systems Integrators for Microsoft and we get first picks with everything..........including 7. Using it, been using it for a long time and much of our engineers choose to use as well. It's a fraction of the size of Vista, a fraction of the system resource hog as Vista, comparable to that of XP and I have been proactively watching for feedback..........I have yet to see ONE COMPLAINT.

You don't like............drop your computer off a bridge and go with a MAC (because MACs will of course save the world; NOT), but don't make lame, meritless comments. This I am an expert in and I'm not bias, because MS drives me nuts. I just know fact from fiction.

I JUST INSTAL WINDOWS 7 BUILD 7000 ON BIOSTAR MOTHERBOARD ITS WORKING BUT ONLY CANT UPDATE THE VIDEO CARD BUT WORKING WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMS AND ITS FAST I LIKE VISTA AND XP BUT WIND.7 ITS NEW AND ITS FAST AND THE ORBIT CRACK WORKING TO SO ACTIVATION IS DISABLED DIDNOT GO ONLINE TO SE IF THE INTERNET WORKING BUT I WILL GO LATER WINDOWS 7 IS GREAT AND FAST THANK YOU MICROSOFT

Don't know why folk keep bitching about vista,get 4 gig of ram installed, turn off the index service and bobs you uncle,its more secure then XP haven't got a virus yet or any spy ware and i visit a lot of dodgy sites.

still drm riddled spyware filled junk that you only rent tho... and that's the end of it.

not much point banging on about "how f--- great the beta or rc is.... until you poor schmucks get the full retail with all the hollywood drm crap in it you will never see how bad it really is.

Does nobody remember all the raving about fista?.. how it was the best thing ever??? yeah right.. same old crap from M$ .. a company with no ideas of their own.

Originally posted by killalot:

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Don't know why folk keep bitching about vista,get 4 gig of ram installed, turn off the index service and bobs you uncle,its more secure then XP haven't got a virus yet or any spy ware and i visit a lot of dodgy sites.

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Because people are trying to run Vista on a machine that just can't handle it.
Seems the majority of people want an OS and PC from almost 10 years ago.
Why is it that when an OS wants more resources, people bitch and complain? Nobody complains when a game (or any other app) does that?
Awwwww, why does Bioshock/Crysis/insert DX10 game here need so much video RAM?....The original Doom never required that much, so it must be bloatware. I must base all my opinions on software and hardware requirements from a decade ago. Wawawa.

Trying to stay nativally backwards compatable is what has gotten MS into the situation they are in now. They are trying to throw anything and everything into an OS to keep it backwards compatable and it just got more and more unstable. I applaud MS for their decision to do it virtually. If they do the virtualization right (which lets face it, i doubt it), you WILL be able to run DX games and have near native speeds in the VM.

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Why is it that when an OS wants more resources, people bitch and complain? Nobody complains when a game (or any other app) does that?
Awwwww, why does Bioshock/Crysis/insert DX10 game here need so much video RAM?....The original Doom never required that much, so it must be bloatware. I must base all my opinions on software and hardware requirements from a decade ago. Wawawa.

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People complain because the average Joe is not a gamer. Typically gamers are not as concerned about system resources because they either dropped a huge wad of cash to get a good system that will be good for years to come, or they are constantly looking for the next upgrade to play the newest game available.

Most computer users dont want to have to spend another couple of hundred dollars on an upgrade (yes a couple hundred since the average person does not know how to do their own upgrades). My wife, for one, has her system completely maxed out at 2GB ram and a 3.73 dual core processor. Her system still works flawlessly, but is she expected to upgrade just to run a new operating system? I think not.

Is this similar to VMware? Or is this software emulated. I'd be interested in finding out. I just built my new Corei7 machine and am running Vista Ultimate 64. I installed XP Svc Pack 3 in VMware and run it off a 40GB external USB drive. I only assigned it 512MB RAM and 1 processor. Runs pretty quick and doesn't noticeably slow down any of my Vista processes when I have it turned on. I haven't experienced any lag in Vista Ultimate 64, but I would like to try Windows 7 eventually.

Originally posted by varnull:

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Does nobody remember all the raving about fista?.. how it was the best thing ever??? yeah right.. same old crap from M$ .. a company with no ideas of their own.

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I don't remember any ranting and raving. It was complaint after complaint from the beginning of Vista's betas and RCs. Maybe initially there were good words before people had any actual use with the software, but once the RC reached the public it was nothing but complaints.

does no body rmember the BS that every said about XP till SP2?

vist awas brilliant on the off. the onyl problem were lazy 3rd party drivers.

Wow, Windows 7 can run XP! If that isn't an admission of failure I don't know what is. I'll stick with my Linux, thank-you very much. It can run XP too, and without all the Windows bloat.

Windows 7 isn't Vista with a facelift? The only reason it isn't a service pack is because it would still have the name Vista, nothing like a new name to sell the same old #$%% to the same old suckers. You shouldn't NEED 4GB of RAM to run an OS. If your applications need it for databases etc, fair enough, but not the OS itself.

Microsoft should just die gracefully. But no, it is just going to turn into SCO all over again, expect to see a lot of litigation from Microsoft trying to survive over the next 10 years, NOT innovation.

Originally posted by OzMick:

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Wow, Windows 7 can run XP! If that isn't an admission of failure I don't know what is. I'll stick with my Linux, thank-you very much. It can run XP too, and without all the Windows bloat.

Windows 7 isn't Vista with a facelift? The only reason it isn't a service pack is because it would still have the name Vista, nothing like a new name to sell the same old #$%% to the same old suckers. You shouldn't NEED 4GB of RAM to run an OS. If your applications need it for databases etc, fair enough, but not the OS itself.
Microsoft should just die gracefully. But no, it is just going to turn into SCO all over again, expect to see a lot of litigation from Microsoft trying to survive over the next 10 years, NOT innovation.

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Exactly.

OzMick
If Linux ran any of the games only available for Windows then Microsoft would die for sure... until then Microsoft will continue to enjoy their 90% of market share.

I use Linux myself on a couple of PCs but it is far from perfect!

Been using the Windows 7 Beta since it came out and it runs smooth. Might be the first time I actually buy an OS.

Originally posted by 1Adonis4u:

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OzMick
If Linux ran any of the games only available for Windows then Microsoft would die for sure... until then Microsoft will continue to enjoy their 90% of market share.

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Quite true, but personally I leave the gaming to my console for the most part. imo PC's are workhorses not for games but that's just my view on it.

Yes, Vista 64 bit with the latest SP flies, if you have the right hardware. You can tweak alot of the BS and really get the system running correctly... however, 7 runs correctly right from the base installation.

And it runs well on OLDER hardware. Basically, if you have a gig of memory, and a 1ghz or great processor (such as the earlier Centrino badged Pentium M's) you are set.

Of course, the better the hardware, the better the results, as with any system. Many of the "older" platforms I tested don't support Aero, but it's not a major loss unless you want the eye candy.

Originally posted by OzMick:

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Wow, Windows 7 can run XP! If that isn't an admission of failure I don't know what is. I'll stick with my Linux, thank-you very much. It can run XP too, and without all the Windows bloat.

Windows 7 isn't Vista with a facelift? The only reason it isn't a service pack is because it would still have the name Vista, nothing like a new name to sell the same old #$%% to the same old suckers. You shouldn't NEED 4GB of RAM to run an OS. If your applications need it for databases etc, fair enough, but not the OS itself.

You don't need 4 gig of ram to run the OS (Vista) 1 gig will do, if you want all the bells and whistles,dreamscene,sidebar,etc the more you run the more memory you need,simple maths.

Originally posted by 1Adonis4u:

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OzMick
If Linux ran any of the games only available for Windows then Microsoft would die for sure... until then Microsoft will continue to enjoy their 90% of market share.

I use Linux myself on a couple of PCs but it is far from perfect!

Been using the Windows 7 Beta since it came out and it runs smooth. Might be the first time I actually buy an OS.

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Gaming on the PC is dying and has been for years, too much piracy for developers to have to deal with.

Gamers, despite their opinions of themselves, are a minority of PC users, and are hardly going to decide the fate of Microsoft. The vast majority of Windows installations are in businesses where an integrated chipset is more than adequate. Most gamers probably wouldn't even pay for a Windows license in any case, l33t as they (think they) are.

This is just Microsoft Virtual PC 2007 with the ability to add OS's other then XP removed and the ability to do a quick setup added. Whats the point if you really care download VPC.

I'm fairly sure this is poppycock anyway. Mainly because pretty much everything works fine in 7 anyway and even then if something hasn't worked I've got onto Microsoft using the Send Feedback button and they've fixed it a few weeks later...

Linux = Fail.

It had a market opened up to it with the retardedness that is netbooks, and a Windows platform (XP) still dominates there.

Originally posted by subpopz:

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Linux = Fail.

It had a market opened up to it with the retardedness that is netbooks, and a Windows platform (XP) still dominates there.

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Linux has been and will always be in its own little category.
unlike windows and Mac the aim of Linux was never to dominate but instead provide a choice across multiple platforms.

routers,gateways,hardware firewalls,PC,PDA,Cell Phones,Corporate Servers. you name it Linux has more than likely been able to run it

Windows is one of the worst OSes i've seen in my life, but when it dominates a good 70% of the market its really a stark comparison.

I use Windoze to game.
I use Gentoo for the more Common tasks.

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Originally posted by 1Adonis4u:

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OzMick
If Linux ran any of the games only available for Windows then Microsoft would die for sure... until then Microsoft will continue to enjoy their 90% of market share.

I use Linux myself on a couple of PCs but it is far from perfect!

Been using the Windows 7 Beta since it came out and it runs smooth. Might be the first time I actually buy an OS.

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Gaming on the PC is dying and has been for years, too much piracy for developers to have to deal with.

Gamers, despite their opinions of themselves, are a minority of PC users, and are hardly going to decide the fate of Microsoft. The vast majority of Windows installations are in businesses where an integrated chipset is more than adequate. Most gamers probably wouldn't even pay for a Windows license in any case, l33t as they (think they) are.

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Thats a incorrect view of PC gaming, the 2 main reasons PC gaming is dying or at least has less backing for moronic twitch gamer titles is because MS went console and dragged the whole industry with it, because its as easy to dev for the MS consoles quickened PC development on consoles since they simply have a larger user base to sell to. Another huge issue with gaming in general is development costs that are thinning out developers and publishers focusing the industry even more to a console centric IE watered down nature.

Piracy? bah! Its about sheer marketable user bases.
If Piracy was a huge concern the WII would not be more easy to hack than the 360.... and the 360 would not be the most pirated system ever....

Can we ban the guy using ALL CAPS? Just a thought.

Originally posted by hermes_vb:

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Can we ban the guy using ALL CAPS? Just a thought.

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Also why the funk does he think he can randomly ask for help in the news section....

Just to say something about the performance of each OS:
Windows XP x32 - About 15-21 processes on new format startup
Windows Vista x64 - About 50+ processes on new format startup
Windows 7 x64 - About 30-35 processes on new format startup.

All tested on my computer with all updates, activation, all drivers installed.

So XP is still the best with performance here but Windows 7 is a HUGE improvement over Vista.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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W7 is Not Vista. W7 is nowhere near the resource hog Vista is.[/i]

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Haven't had the (dis)pleasure of using Vista, but W7 runs very smoothly on my Core 2 Duo E6400 with onboard graphics.

EMIR - Please don't ubuse that poor CAPS LOCK buton in future.

Originally posted by creaky:

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Originally posted by DXR88:

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W7 is Not Vista. W7 is nowhere near the resource hog Vista is.[/i]

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Haven't had the (dis)pleasure of using Vista, but W7 runs very smoothly on my Core 2 Duo E6400 with onboard graphics.

EMIR - Please don't ubuse that poor CAPS LOCK buton in future.

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the thing is creaky, vista is fine when you have a AMD 7750BE 4GB of ram 2x 3870's a 600 watt Crossfire ready PSU.

W7 can run just as good on older hardware (2002 era) as XP. i don't like Vista as the interface is a throw off (it doesn't feel windoish?)


W7 interface is no better than vista's buts its a change i'll have to get used to. after all somebody's got to send me back to school for a new session in OS fundamentals (never got why its got fun in there more like hellamentals).

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Quote:

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Why is it that when an OS wants more resources, people bitch and complain? Nobody complains when a game (or any other app) does that?
Awwwww, why does Bioshock/Crysis/insert DX10 game here need so much video RAM?....The original Doom never required that much, so it must be bloatware. I must base all my opinions on software and hardware requirements from a decade ago. Wawawa.

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People complain because the average Joe is not a gamer. Typically gamers are not as concerned about system resources because they either dropped a huge wad of cash to get a good system that will be good for years to come, or they are constantly looking for the next upgrade to play the newest game available.

Most computer users dont want to have to spend another couple of hundred dollars on an upgrade (yes a couple hundred since the average person does not know how to do their own upgrades). My wife, for one, has her system completely maxed out at 2GB ram and a 3.73 dual core processor. Her system still works flawlessly, but is she expected to upgrade just to run a new operating system? I think not.

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How difficult can it be to pull out a stick of ram and inssert a 2 gig stick into the slot ? Any retard can do that and it can be had for less than $ 50.00 at Newegg !

Originally posted by DXR88:

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the thing is creaky, vista is fine when you have a AMD 7750BE 4GB of ram 2x 3870's a 600 watt Crossfire ready PSU

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Originally posted by zorb43:

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How difficult can it be to pull out a stick of ram and inssert a 2 gig stick into the slot ? Any retard can do that and it can be had for less than $ 50.00 at Newegg !

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That was why i always stayed away from Vista. I don't buy into the (misguided) idea that the latest OS or software has to have a monster system with which to run it. Just because there are £400 graphics cards etc for sale doesn't mean an OS has to be designed to virtually need the very latest powerful hardware to run. Linux can indeed run on very old hardware, and personally i run a mix of old and new hardware (nowadays mainly new, but i digress) Windows 7, Linux etc, can run on peoples' existing (and slower) hardware. It was about time that Microsoft made Windows 7 (refined Vista code no less) able to run on older, slower hardware (and apparently on netbooks too though i'm leaving my netbook on XP for now), we don't all want or need to have the very latest expensive hardware just because they release a new OS.
I don't fall for the argument 'technology moves on blah blah blah', of course it does, but i don't sell the kids every time something new comes out. I do try and keep my kit fairly up to date, but i'm not one of today's throwaway society who have to have the latest toys just because they're out there, i'm not 6yrs old anymore. I run old kit until it's had it, i don't just trash or get rid just because it can't run new stuff, it can still run existing OS/software and/or alternative OS/software.

Maybe Windows 7 was written to run leaner to take advantage of the netbook type market, i don't know (or care), it just means that they will regain a customer who used every single release of theirs except Vista (i even used the abomination that was WinMe). What i won't be doing however is allowing any Windows Updates on my machines, just as i wouldn't do with previous versions. I don't want DRM on my kit, whether it's via Updates or not.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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W7 can run just as good on older hardware (2002 era) as XP.

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I've so far only tried W7 (build 7000) on an AMD Turion laptop and build 7100 on this Core 2 Duo E6400, W7 does indeed absolutely fly here. I've got XP, W7 and Mandriva 2009.1 on this machine now, and i have very good performance from all three, the only pain is which one to use, though W7 is winning so far :)

Even the oldest computers are useful for something, a NAS or steaming server hell even a dynamics's Machine. people are to quick to throw away there stuff.

want to know a secret?.. I don't give a toss what a beta or an rc candidate includes or doesn't.. at the end of the day they will sell you the same old crap dressed up to look pretty..

even xp spends more time painting pretty pictures of application icons than actually doing what you want it to.. junk..

wait for the full retail release.. It comes from on high.. fista was to test the resolve of retailers and worldwide governments with the anti-trust.. round1 to M$.. round 2 to FOSS.. because we all remember sco and cbm..

to the idiot.. M$ now have less that a 50% share of the home desktop usage.. the market (units sold per pc) are twisted by retailer lockin. Until friday I had over 70 working computers in myn house.. guess what.. no windoze heap amongst them.... and I haven't bought a pc or operating system since windows 3.1

Originally posted by varnull:

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want to know a secret?.. I don't give a toss what a beta or an rc candidate includes or doesn't.. at the end of the day they will sell you the same old crap dressed up to look pretty..

even xp spends more time painting pretty pictures of application icons than actually doing what you want it to.. junk..

wait for the full retail release.. It comes from on high.. fista was to test the resolve of retailers and worldwide governments with the anti-trust.. round1 to M$.. round 2 to FOSS.. because we all remember sco and cbm..

to the idiot.. M$ now have less that a 50% share of the home desktop usage.. the market (units sold per pc) are twisted by retailer lockin. Until friday I had over 70 working computers in myn house.. guess what.. no windoze heap amongst them.... and I haven't bought a pc or operating system since windows 3.1

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speechless, absolutely speechless.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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Even the oldest computers are useful for something, a NAS or steaming server hell even a dynamics's Machine. people are to quick to throw away there stuff.

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So whats a 25MHz, 12MB RAM, 3 1/2 and 5.25 floppy's, 150MB HD, Windows 3.1 good for? Lol.

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Originally posted by varnull:

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want to know a secret?.. I don't give a toss what a beta or an rc candidate includes or doesn't.. at the end of the day they will sell you the same old crap dressed up to look pretty..

even xp spends more time painting pretty pictures of application icons than actually doing what you want it to.. junk..

wait for the full retail release.. It comes from on high.. fista was to test the resolve of retailers and worldwide governments with the anti-trust.. round1 to M$.. round 2 to FOSS.. because we all remember sco and cbm..

to the idiot.. M$ now have less that a 50% share of the home desktop usage.. the market (units sold per pc) are twisted by retailer lockin. Until friday I had over 70 working computers in myn house.. guess what.. no windoze heap amongst them.... and I haven't bought a pc or operating system since windows 3.1

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speechless, absolutely speechless.

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Well..... I've not bought a OS since 95.... theres was no need since the OEM stuff was as good as retail now MS tries to screw that up with limited installs or neutered versions of coarse since its all on the net and I own a version of it "upgrading" it is rather easy.

The more you try and control a market the further it will get from you.

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Originally posted by DXR88:

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Even the oldest computers are useful for something, a NAS or steaming server hell even a dynamics's Machine. people are to quick to throw away there stuff.

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So whats a 25MHz, 12MB RAM, 3 1/2 and 5.25 floppy's, 150MB HD, Windows 3.1 good for? Lol.

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Skifree. love that game