Secret ACTA Internet chapter leaked: Global DMCA and 'three strikes'

"This is just what we know so far. I can't imagine it could get any worse though."

I assume this is sarcasm. I wouldn't be suprised if they were working on software that must be installed on every computer that would scan for anything that might be copywrited in order to delete it...even if you owned it.

Hmmm, this could be a good thing. Should all these measures actually go into effect, everyone will simply stop using the 'net; stop buying music CDs; stop buying DVDs; stop going to the movies. Then we'll see how the ISPs, the record companies, the riaa, the mpaa, et al deal with the total loss of the consumers they themselves have driven away.

( envisions these idiots crawling back to me, begging for my interest )

^_^ Ha, I can't wait.

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-Worldwide DMCA: "Notice-and-takedown" letters must be adopted worldwide, requiring ISPs to take down any "infringing" material. There needs to be no evidence or trial, if the material gets flagged, it must be taken down.

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Its only a matter of time before the internet becomes derilict and a new seperate but similar system takes its place if this S*** keeps up. Some government needs to stand upto these ass hats and tell them that the internet is NOT something they are allowed to control.

This is disgusting. Are there people actually for this?

This is the most disgusting thing I have ever read. Ever.

*bleep* everything if this is put in place.

Originally posted by KillerBug:

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"This is just what we know so far. I can't imagine it could get any worse though."

I assume this is sarcasm. I wouldn't be suprised if they were working on software that must be installed on every computer that would scan for anything that might be copywrited in order to delete it...even if you owned it.

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Originally posted by canuckerz:

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Its only a matter of time before the internet becomes derilict and a new seperate but similar system takes its place if this S*** keeps up. Some government needs to stand upto these ass hats and tell them that the internet is NOT something they are allowed to control.

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Sieg Heil!

If all this stuff goes through, I will not be able to justify using the intenet anymore. The DMCA has already given me reason to disconnect my cable tv...now these Nazi-Wannabe bastards are trying to make me turn off the internet. If this goes down, there will be nothing to keep me from moving to the woods with a pile of machine guns and the goggles from the new Modern Warefare.

Anyone else think that uncle sam is starting to look like an evil clown from a rob zombie movie?

Same as the other comments. This is NOT the Internet I imagined would happen or wanted.

God damn it! This is America and we aren't gonna tolerate this. I don't know about anyone else around the world but there is gonna be a serious backlash when this gets enforced. Damn liberal democrats trying to take away our freedoms and rights. This once great country is seeing some dark days ahead of her.

Originally posted by xnmalletx:

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God damn it! This is America and we aren't gonna tolerate this. I don't know about anyone else around the world but there is gonna be a serious backlash when this gets enforced. Damn liberal democrats trying to take away our freedoms and rights. This once great country is seeing some dark days ahead of her.

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Let it happen. I won't need that much bandwidth anymore, so I'll drop my cable level a tier. Internet would be just for random info and email for me. Whatever.

My money spreads around to a lot of different places, regardless of what I download. Preventing me from downloading doesn't give me more money to spend.

I literally just found out about it on another site and was going to post it in the Mod lounge for the Admins. Bad isn't the word.

Senate Bill Would Give President Obama Authority to Pull the Plug on Your Internet

We don't do politics here, this is linked to the declaration of a Swine Flu 'national emergency'.

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Originally posted by xnmalletx:

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God damn it! This is America and we aren't gonna tolerate this. I don't know about anyone else around the world but there is gonna be a serious backlash when this gets enforced. Damn liberal democrats trying to take away our freedoms and rights. This once great country is seeing some dark days ahead of her.

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Go shit in your hat. Liberals? Who are the pro corporate SOBs in this country that think corps should be able to do and say anything? If anything -- to be fair-- it is both. Both take money from the aholes that want to impose this.

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forcing ISPs to cut off multiple time offenders from the Internet after two warnings. If you are accused, you do not receive counsel or a trial.

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I am always drawn back to my days in school whe I read the book 1984.

Lets just re-release it and call it 2010 or Obama's world.

This is completely unacceptable. The government owns the auto industry and now it wants to control the virtual world. I knew we were in for it when O was elected for office.

I say we completely replace our current legislation with actual people, people who will understand, listen and actually do what we the people who elected them in the first place want done. Isn't that the whole purpose of government by the people for the people?

This has to be a joke. Every thing on this list have been proven to fail.

ISP's were never set up to be police so that whole "proactively" thing is hilarious. It'd be like hiring a new security guard at a mall and telling him he's now responsible for everything that has EVER been stolen.

3 strikes would be impossible to enforce world wide. Are we saying now China could make 3 claims on anybody they damn well please? Obama in prison for 3 unsubstantiated claims of downloading Beegees songs? To sweet.

Again with the DMCA, how the frak do they plan on enforcing that?? I'd like to see Pepsi get a C&D from some Malaysian company saying they own the rights to both the logo and name.

And DRM has been proven to not work. Done.

You are just finding out about this now???? This bill was introduced by a DEMOCRAT (sorry empulse)Sen Rockerfeller (who's family has more money then God) and one RINO Sen Olympia Snow (who votes with Democrats 98% of the time) So while a few of you may not like it, it is the DEMOCRATS that are trying to start this. With everything I read about the democrat I wonder just how someone can think it is ok for the US Government to control every aspect of your life from cradle to grave.

You can read the whole bill here
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s773/show

It has been read twice and referred to a committee and that is just Senate speak for it being sent to die there as it will never make it onto the committee's agenda to be given a hearing nor will it be allowed to come out from the committee for a full vote as the twit Rockerfeller was told in no uncertain terms that IF this was brought to the floor he would get exactly two votes, his and Snows; and not to be counting on Snows. As well as any damages done because of this bill to a citizen would place him in the rare position of being able to be sued by any citizen who was damaged by same, AND he would not receive any attorneys provided by the US Government, only provided by his wallet. If you call his office, they will tell you that they want nothing to do with this bill as he has received a load of shit from people demanding to know WTF he is doing/thinking!

If you want to contact him, here is his address and webpage

http://rockefeller.senate.gov/

Address:
531 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Phone: 202-224-6472
Fax: 202-224-7665

let the games begin!

"This is just what we know so far. I can't imagine it could get any worse though." Well they might start sending pirates to death camps. Can't have the comapnies losing money now a days

Al Queda getting White House Internet Connection cut off coz they are downloading Osama videos :D

p.s.

Whoops I bet that sentence is setting off "Echelon" alarm bells all over the place

p.p.s.
Just to make sure...
Barrack
nuclear
anthrax

Originally posted by canuckerz:

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Its only a matter of time before the internet becomes derilict and a new seperate but similar system takes its place if this S*** keeps up. Some government needs to stand upto these ass hats and tell them that the internet is NOT something they are allowed to control.

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Originally posted by Morreale:

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This is disgusting. Are there people actually for this?

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It is nice when ISP's, the MPAA, and the RIAA can write their own legislation. Assholes! Being kicked off of your internet provider without a right to defend yourself is not Freedom. We need Net Neutrality and the FCC to step in.

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Originally posted by Morreale:

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This is disgusting. Are there people actually for this?

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Yes, the media and all the politicians in their pockets. You are to be crushed! You really need to vote out every incumbant you can. They are your enemy! Then not buy any media. See how long their money holds up.

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Look. These billionaires you chastise make their money off of who? Us. So enslaving us is not their goal. If we become slaves they see no net gain whatsoever and the world, the place they like to "play" in, would become this dark dreary place lacking fun and excitement.

They do not wish to see this world of thrills an dspills come to an end any more than we do.

So get some perspective. Yes the DMCA and all it's frankenstein progeny are wrong-headed ideas, but they are not evil, just dangerous and annoying.

An entreprenurial spirit creating an alternate internet, now that is clever and interesting. A sort of "co-op" type internet, funded by users, perhaps using some telephone line system for transmission.

Or a powerline type system. Anything more would cost way to much, and the last thing we need is more wireless stuff clogging up the electrical air we pass through minute by minute.

The new DMCA will not fly. It makes no sense whatsoever and it would be very hard to enforce for ISp's and even harder for Governments to monitor. It's a rediculous idea.

Originally posted by Mrwirez:

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It is nice when ISP's, the MPAA, and the RIAA can write their own legislation. Assholes! Being kicked off of your internet provider without a right to defend yourself is not Freedom. We need Net Neutrality and the FCC to step in.

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Originally posted by rtlinux:

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I am always drawn back to my days in school whe I read the book 1984.

Lets just re-release it and call it 2010 or Obama's world.

This is completely unacceptable. The government owns the auto industry and now it wants to control the virtual world. I knew we were in for it when O was elected for office.

I say we completely replace our current legislation with actual people, people who will understand, listen and actually do what we the people who elected them in the first place want done. Isn't that the whole purpose of government by the people for the people?

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Originally posted by mikecUSA:

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Look. These billionaires you chastise make their money off of who? Us. So enslaving us is not their goal. If we become slaves they see no net gain whatsoever

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Originally posted by mikecUSA:

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Look. These billionaires you chastise make their money off of who? Us. So enslaving us is not their goal. If we become slaves they see no net gain whatsoever and the world, the place they like to "play" in, would become this dark dreary place lacking fun and excitement.

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Originally posted by mikecUSA:

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Or a powerline type system. Anything more would cost way to much, and the last thing we need is more wireless stuff clogging up the electrical air we pass through minute by minute.

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Originally posted by mikecUSA:

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The new DMCA will not fly. It makes no sense whatsoever and it would be very hard to enforce for ISp's and even harder for Governments to monitor. It's a rediculous idea.

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C'm on guys and girls...This is not the United Nations, "the World Government", Obama, FOX News, Democrats vs. Republicans... This was initiated by a bunch of middle aged white people running the MPAA, RIAA, and other 'panicky desperate' organizations, desperate and panicked because they are losing their turf (making insane amounts of money off artists' back with old technologies like CDs, DVDs and other "Jewel Box Items"). Even if they pass this stupendously stupid mechanism in favor of their greedy Status Quo, they will lose. Half the world is downloading 'illegaly' because it MAKES SENSE. Let them try to reverse that trend. Not a chance. If they cut off my internet, they cut their own throats. There were Bootleg vinyl albums, then came Napster, then came torrent files, the next step will be even more dramatic. Do not fear. It is going to be interesting.

siber - Please see my first reply in this article, the ACTA thing is part of something else.

Originally posted by siber:

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C'm on guys and girls...This is not the United Nations, "the World Government", Obama, FOX News, Democrats vs. Republicans... This was initiated by a bunch of middle aged white people running the MPAA, RIAA, and other 'panicky desperate' organizations, desperate and panicked because they are losing their turf (making insane amounts of money off artists' back with old technologies like CDs, DVDs and other "Jewel Box Items"). Even if they pass this stupendously stupid mechanism in favor of their greedy Status Quo, they will lose. Half the world is downloading 'illegaly' because it MAKES SENSE. Let them try to reverse that trend. Not a chance. If they cut off my internet, they cut their own throats. There were Bootleg vinyl albums, then came Napster, then came torrent files, the next step will be even more dramatic. Do not fear. It is going to be interesting.

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edit- This is Andre's article so it's up to him what flies in here, even my comments. All i can say is that we don't do politics here.

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Originally posted by DVDBack23:

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edit- This is Andre's article so it's up to him what flies in here, even my comments. All i can say is that we don't do politics here.

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Free reign here as long as it is within reason. I have many thoughts on this bill but most have already been stated. I also do not think this passes in this form. Many ISPs want nothing to do with cutting pirates off, but then there are the clowns like AT&T and Comcast...

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Originally posted by canuckerz:

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Ontop of that it means they would have to increase their infrastructure dramatically to be able to police this while at the same time kicking off their subscribers. Its impossible fir them to maintain a business that way the only outcome is bankruptcy.

And there's no way that these ass hats haven't considered that which makes me wounder what their real goal is.

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This is just a part of the agenda of the new world order who want to impose a socialist state like the one from Hitler, the corporations (mostly the bankers) want absolute power, this is why they promoted Obama , he is the most socialist of all, we have to stop them .

What do you expect?

We're dealing with the sort of people who think the net really ought to be nothing more than another pushy glorified retail outlet direct in your home.

Notions of community and sharing are anethma to that sort.
They don't care that sharers actually spend more money on legitimate retail goods, all they see are the 'try before buys' (especially those items we try and don't want) sharers get and they have convinced themselves each and every one would otherwise be a sale for maximising their profit margins.

If they get their way I will step back and go for 0.5mb broadband.
Anything more will be pointless.

Watching them wriggle over copyright and attempting to monitise everything on it is simply one over-extended tragic farce.

Bass the buck to the larger group so you don't have to work for your money. Ah modern government aint it grand....

if they actually think that will work they are deluding themselves. It sounds retarded to me because what are they doing then, looking at everyone 24/7 to see ''oh this person just uploaded copyrighted kiddie porn [LOL] to rapidshare!" lets flag him! like what? what kind of staff would this take to monitor everone's use of the internet...not even the most powerfull machines could monitor your internet completely. if this is what they are meaning, its a big phat joke. plus there is always encryption and port tunnels, proxys the list goes on.good luck new world order, y0u can suck my cack. also the only way they can achieve this would be to throw everone in jail and make it a crime to 0wn a puter.

On the one hand this kind of thread makes me feel better, on the other hand I cannot relate to statements like "This is just a part of the agenda of the new world order who want to impose a socialist state like the one from Hitler, the corporations (mostly the bankers) want absolute power, this is why they promoted Obama , he is the most socialist of all, we have to stop them".

That just sounds so stupid to me. Rebel777 and others hopefully are in Kindergarten and will eventually grow up. We have to be optimistic, it beats crying.

You're entitled to your opinion but this 40 year old doesn't need to do much growing up. Research is the name of the game here..

Originally posted by siber:

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We have to be optimistic, it beats crying.

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creaky, I was only referring to being optimistic about people in Kindergarten eventually growing up, being able to have rational and informed thoughts and being able to express those in a language understood by users of this forum.

I was going to put some long lengthy statement here but i deleted it all in short for some of my idea's.

Governments have their way, end up controling all aspects of your life as we know it will be like: Equilibrium

swine flu go get your vaccine other wise you you may parish. sure that might be true but in a dream i recently just had. everyone ran out and got that damn N1H1 vaccine. they thought it saved trillions, but a few months into my dream and Boom Head Shot! shit turned into: I am Legend.

Sure you can vote to help fight for your rights, but this is the last unregulated ways for people to discuss their views and opinions, take that away and what do we have. nothing other hand written letters / smoke signals. so i think we need a few damn right good people handle shop. cause they are trashing our rights, Trashing our rights. hack the planet, HACK THE PLANET!! lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glsFJPbSsPw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvwK-3cQ6gE

Originally posted by empulse:

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Originally posted by xnmalletx:

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God damn it! This is America and we aren't gonna tolerate this. I don't know about anyone else around the world but there is gonna be a serious backlash when this gets enforced. Damn liberal democrats trying to take away our freedoms and rights. This once great country is seeing some dark days ahead of her.

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Go shit in your hat. Liberals? Who are the pro corporate SOBs in this country that think corps should be able to do and say anything? If anything -- to be fair-- it is both. Both take money from the aholes that want to impose this.

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Originally posted by xnmalletx:

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Originally posted by empulse:

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Originally posted by xnmalletx:

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God damn it! This is America and we aren't gonna tolerate this. I don't know about anyone else around the world but there is gonna be a serious backlash when this gets enforced. Damn liberal democrats trying to take away our freedoms and rights. This once great country is seeing some dark days ahead of her.

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Go shit in your hat. Liberals? Who are the pro corporate SOBs in this country that think corps should be able to do and say anything? If anything -- to be fair-- it is both. Both take money from the aholes that want to impose this.

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No it is not both. It is the Democrats and the RINO's. The rino's are just as bad. Where is the true conservative values to stop them from spending?

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Originally posted by elitepunk:

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if they actually think that will work they are deluding themselves. It sounds retarded to me because what are they doing then, looking at everyone 24/7 to see ''oh this person just uploaded copyrighted kiddie porn [LOL] to rapidshare!" lets flag him! like what? what kind of staff would this take to monitor everone's use of the internet...not even the most powerfull machines could monitor your internet completely. if this is what they are meaning, its a big phat joke. plus there is always encryption and port tunnels, proxys the list goes on.good luck new world order, y0u can suck my cack. also the only way they can achieve this would be to throw everone in jail and make it a crime to 0wn a puter.

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''does fear rule egypt, or do i?''-the ten commandments lol don't ask me why i thought of that.

you know what i love about yahoo.ca polls? first it was [ a couple weeks ago]...will you....
A. GET THE FLU SHOT
B. GET NO SHOTS WATSOEVA [no duh]
C. GET BOTH THE H1N1 SHOT AND THE REGULAR FLU SHOT
D. JOIN A MILITA [lol]

But now we get these unanswerable ones like for example...

Should this NHL team get the shot first?...
A. YES THEY ARE HIGH RISK
B. NO, THEY SHOULD STAND IN LINE LIKE THE REST OF US

SIGH...looks like the fear mongering and propaganda worked, and got the sheep out from their dens, or at least up here in canada, home of the post apocalyptic wondering zombie i am legend freaks [or soon to be] and gues what the shots contain mercury, i'll kill you before you stab me with that poison. i promise.

What planet did I land on? Are some of us really having this discussion about Flu Shots? What are people smoking in America? Or are these symptoms of rabies?

lol at the politicians and other organizations(nwo pushers) being on the losing side. their fate has been written a long time ago.

Well Guys, This three strikes thing is ALREADY here. I am on MediaCom Cable Internet and about three months ago they cut me off for three days PUNITIVELY because according to them, a person on my cable hook-up had downloaded a pirated copy of a recent theatrical release movie. They claim to have sent me a warning six months ago when another download 1st offense happened with another movie download from my connection (I have a wireless modem and two hardlines and a laptop connected most of the time. I use wep2 protection.. This prompted them to cut off my cable for 3 days and they stated "ANY OTHER VIOLATION WILL RESULT IN MY BEING PERMANENTLY CUT OFF". IS THIS NOT THREE STRIKES?? I called the MediaCom second tier technician to complain when they initially cut me off and they faxed me a form that basically was an admission by me that I had committed a violation and concluded with a promisary signature that if another violation occures then I would be permanently cut off WITHOUT THE ABILITY TO APPEAL. MediaCom tech stated that if they dont cut me off then they face million dollar fines for allowing illegal downloads. I of course was forced to agree to this as I rely on my high speed connection and my only other option was to have ATT phone install a land line so I could go on phone modem. I should also add that MediaCom is my cable TV service, Phone service and internet provider. SUX eh. got me over the proverbial barrell since there is NO OTHER SERVICE AVAILABLE here. So as you can see THREE STRIKES IS HERE, at least on MediaCom.

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Originally posted by empulse:

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Originally posted by xnmalletx:

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God damn it! This is America and we aren't gonna tolerate this. I don't know about anyone else around the world but there is gonna be a serious backlash when this gets enforced. Damn liberal democrats trying to take away our freedoms and rights. This once great country is seeing some dark days ahead of her.

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Go shit in your hat. Liberals? Who are the pro corporate SOBs in this country that think corps should be able to do and say anything? If anything -- to be fair-- it is both. Both take money from the aholes that want to impose this.

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No it is not both. It is the Democrats and the RINO's. The rino's are just as bad. Where is the true conservative values to stop them from spending?

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lets say the big business men were to compensate the IPS for every account lost, soon we would have to obay the rule or get kicked off line! its a means to an end.........dark days are coming as i said last week when the rule came out for the uk, a lot of these comments to me seem to go to deep, anger without reason, the fact is the music, game and film industry are losing money BIG TIME and are crying all over the government to sort this out, its been coming for a long time this.

This discussion has degenerated into a silly argument about Bush vs Obama, Republicans vs. Democrats in the US. Very tiresome and fruitless. It is supposed to be about ACTA, a worldwide plan to limit internet access to a large number of us based on our download choices.

So Obama has no track record, you feel W.Bush had one? Republicans are champions of a totally free internet while signing into law the Patriot Act, restricting the rights of all US Citizens? This is so old by now...Americans, AfterDawn is an international website NOT based in the US and most members have long lost interest in hystrionic babble about Republicans or Democrats.

Originally posted by siber:

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This discussion has degenerated into a silly argument about Bush vs Obama, Republicans vs. Democrats in the US. Very tiresome and fruitless. It is supposed to be about ACTA, a worldwide plan to limit internet access to a large number of us based on our download choices.
So Obama has no track record, you feel W.Bush had one? Republicans are champions of a totally free internet while signing into law the Patriot Act, restricting the rights of all US Citizens? This is so old by now...Americans, AfterDawn is an international website NOT based in the US and most members have long lost interest in hystrionic babble about Republicans or Democrats.

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WHOA, hold on now, THREE STRIKES does exist here in the States, read my earlier post before saying it wont happen here, IT ALREADY HAS!

I think we should demolish the whole Left wing right wing BS. the only choice we really have is do we want to get it up the pooper by the left or by the right.

if corporations really want to run America, i say let them they wont last 5 years.

and as i always say

we the people will be forced to Fight for everything that is America, once again. we killed are brothers in arms once whats to say we wont do it again.

there are about 380,000 active service personnel. there are 3 million civilians with the same capacity as the US militia. who do they think will win.

at any rate this is nothing new, ISPs have had the ability to Monitor all traffic since the 1990's. the only difference is the Government had to give the Ok.

Originally posted by jimmurray:

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WHOA, hold on now, THREE STRIKES does exist here in the States, read my earlier post before saying it wont happen here, IT ALREADY HAS!

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Originally posted by jimmurray:

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WHOA, hold on now, THREE STRIKES does exist here in the States, read my earlier post before saying it wont happen here, IT ALREADY HAS!

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its ironic that google Ad shows Obama & ammo on this page.

if Obama doesn't like my Ammo that has enough lead to poison a Rhino then we have a problem, so what if it breaks the Geneva Convention.

Like I said, Only other option I have is Satellite I guess, since MediaCom is THE ONLY game in town. We live in a very rural county and up to about 20 years ago we got two tv channels (fuzzy ones) and if you wanted to pay for the line run and pole installation you got telephone. When cell service first came in I had a bag phone (remember those?) Now we have the luxury of a cable co. that offers the world. For my combined services I pay around $200. mo. I just can't afford to pay for ATT phone (only service they offer here) but I guess they have a version of satellite, but even still I would need to do better than dial-up. So as you can see they have me by the short hairs. I should add that when I signed on to the internet package there was no clause about movie piracy or anything similar, this came about sometime after I entered the contract w them. Since I am a disabled Nam vet I cant afford the legal battle to test their policy (unless it becomes absolutely necessary)So there is a three strike law that they control (perhaps LAW is the wrong descriptive) and I am forced to abide by it as long as I want the internet at any reasonable speed.

I should add, our County is Lake County California. We are about 2 1/2 hours out of San Francisco and the same from Sacramento. We are in a valley surrounded by inactive volcano (ever heard of the Steam Wells? harvest steam for electricity around here) Anyway thats why we have such sh#$$% services here. Am planning a move North to Eureka probably next year and I will download as many movies as I can just to see if they will cut me off before I go.... LOL

I say we stop using ISP's and just form ourselves into a GIANT LAN =)

Originally posted by engage16:

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I say we stop using ISP's and just form ourselves into a GIANT LAN =)

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mcmenace, it is obviously always futile to try to convince anybody to change their opinion, especially when it involves politics on the internet. I, therefore realize this entry is mostly an exercise in keeping my English current.

But I always do hope the arguments remain civilized. I will consider getting off my knees, as you suggest. Whatever that recommendation represents, I hope it wasn't intended to offend.

My grandfather was extremely grateful for your grandfather sacrificing himself on the battlefields of Europe in WW2. He was there, wasn't he? On the other hand I don't think he'd care much about US Politics today.
He would wonder why people in the American media are always yelling and screaming, about all the hostility and bullying. It won't get you anywhere. In a world of 7 billion people, 300 million Americans may have some difficulties with that type of behavior. Even your grandfather would have his doubts.

The persons that think monitoring can't be done need a sanity check.

It is being done as we speek and I assume this is world wide. I stopped P2P almost 6 months ago but continue to use Peerguardian. A am still being pinged when I surf the web. Maybe that is because they never got in but I don't think so. I am also in a country where that will not help and is probably illegal. I suspect this is common through out the world. If the media spent billions of dollars on bribes, spending a billion on monitoring is reasonable. You can do a great deal with a billion dollars. I bet they have a bounty for new IP addresses. Companies build their own systems and techniques to hunt you down.

Originally posted by Mez:

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The persons that think monitoring can't be done need a sanity check.

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Originally posted by Mez:

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The persons that think monitoring can't be done need a sanity check.

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aww, why you gotta be like that? you sound defeated. while i agree with that statement it is negative.

[Quote]I bet they have a bounty for new IP addresses. Companies build their own systems and techniques to hunt you down.

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Originally posted by siber:

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mcmenace, it is obviously always futile to try to convince anybody to change their opinion, especially when it involves politics on the internet. I, therefore realize this entry is mostly an exercise in keeping my English current.

But I always do hope the arguments remain civilized. I will consider getting off my knees, as you suggest. Whatever that recommendation represents, I hope it wasn't intended to offend.

My grandfather was extremely grateful for your grandfather sacrificing himself on the battlefields of Europe in WW2. He was there, wasn't he? On the other hand I don't think he'd care much about US Politics today.
He would wonder why people in the American media are always yelling and screaming, about all the hostility and bullying. It won't get you anywhere. In a world of 7 billion people, 300 million Americans may have some difficulties with that type of behavior. Even your grandfather would have his doubts.

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The most amazing election I ever saw was when we eliminated the 14 crooks in our local office. The only incumbent to survive was the only honest one. We voted in 14 bigger crooks. They are waiting in line to rape the public. The only way we can fix it is to start burning them to the stake! If we burned the worst 100 the rest would fall in line.

I am afraid something like that will happen in the next decade.

I'm very grateful to your uncle. The war was before my time but I do recognize Americans of WW2 did fight and sacrifice for Europe's freedom. That does not mean America today should expect the same gratitude to last forever. I'm sure you've long forgotten about Lafayette - a Frenchman - helping the US in its Independence War against the British. With good reason.. We all have to prove ourselves over and over. We cannot live off the glory of our ancesters.

ACTA was defeated in the European Parlament last night. At least in Europe "it ain't gonna happen".

Um...just HOW has it come to Democrats v Republicans when if you go to the links I provided in my first reply, it clearly shows the author of this bill is a DEMOCRAT. Therefor Republicans are not even in this fight so it is only a fight against an elitist rich democrat bastard that thinks he knows whats better for you then you do.


Anyone trying to make it anything more then this is just a trouble maker.

Daniel_1 :"A bill to ensure the continued free flow of commerce within the United States and with its global trading partners through secure cyber communications, to provide for the continued development and exploitation of the Internet and intranet communications for such purposes, to provide for the development of a cadre of information technology specialists to improve and maintain effective cybersecurity defenses against disruption, and for other purposes."

We are on a thread concerning ACTA. Please, shed some light about the connection between your point about "Democrats", the above bill and ACTA.

Originally posted by siber:

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I'm very grateful to your uncle. The war was before my time but I do recognize Americans of WW2 did fight and sacrifice for Europe's freedom. That does not mean America today should expect the same gratitude to last forever. I'm sure you've long forgotten about Lafayette - a Frenchman - helping the US in its Independence War against the British. With good reason.. We all have to prove ourselves over and over. We cannot live off the glory of our ancesters.

ACTA was defeated in the European Parlament last night. At least in Europe "it ain't gonna happen".

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mcmenace, all in all I'm not going to argue with you on this. I believe we all have good intentions on AfterDawn. If we just listen to each others point of view, we've got a chance. Peace.

Some of you still don't get it. It does not matter who is in power unless they are not crooks. In the US elections the media was the second biggest supporter of the elections, only the bankers paid more. Remember the trillions of dollars they got for that? They paid off both sides even though Obama is very beholding to the media. Opra was his first big supporter. I am sure this happened through out the world since we are seeing these laws commong up all over the world.

Originally posted by siber:

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mcmenace, all in all I'm not going to argue with you on this. I believe we all have good intentions on AfterDawn. If we just listen to each others point of view, we've got a chance. Peace.

---

Originally posted by siber:

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Daniel_1 :"A bill to ensure the continued free flow of commerce within the United States and with its global trading partners through secure cyber communications, to provide for the continued development and exploitation of the Internet and intranet communications for such purposes, to provide for the development of a cadre of information technology specialists to improve and maintain effective cybersecurity defenses against disruption, and for other purposes."

We are on a thread concerning ACTA. Please, shed some light about the connection between your point about "Democrats", the above bill and ACTA.

---

.23% of our private banking and business in the US has gov't money.. Some estimate it's as high as .75% Your hero St. Ronnie (aka - Captain Puddin head) held our heads under water @ 10% unemployment for 3+ yrs. Stepped in an fired workers who wanted better pay and better working conditions. You didn't scream an cry then.. you cheered. Our last Admin drove this country into a ditch, wiped their ass with the constitution, created LOYALTY OATHS, CREATED FREE SPEECH ZONES -- and you did nothing. You are a fake. You are a wanna be. *bleep* phony concern troll.

So die in a fire *bleep*. Gov't wants to control everything? You are an enigma wrapped in a dog turd. First you say "gubment" is the most incompetent thing ever created, then you scream an cry that it's trying to rule your life, with grand conspiracies.. secret muslim anti american plots. Do us all a favor you uneducated ass:

Kill your kids.
kill your wife.
then kill yourself.

You ideologues are what is wrong with this country -- you are so *bleep* ignorant that you believe every word outta some Mormon extremists mouth -- "He's on TV -- it MUSt be true!!" Good for you *bleep*.

You are EXACTLY the same as the Taliban. You think you can make your own reality, to fit your sad narrow ideology. And then you want to impose it on the rest of us. You don't understand what you are saying - you are uneducated and dangerous.

empulse - Watch the language

Originally posted by creaky:

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empulse - Watch the language

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mcmenace, what exactly are you planning to do?

Daniel_1, what exactly are you planning to do?

Empulse, you're talking to me? You're talking to me!?

Originally posted by siber:

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Daniel_1, what exactly are you planning to do?

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Originally posted by siber:

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Empulse, you're talking to me? You're talking to me!?

---

Quote:

---

If you cannot or will not understand that simple fact, then I really pity you as you are too far gone to reason with and are ready for a trip to the rubber room.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by empulse:

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Originally posted by xnmalletx:

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God damn it! This is America and we aren't gonna tolerate this. I don't know about anyone else around the world but there is gonna be a serious backlash when this gets enforced. Damn liberal democrats trying to take away our freedoms and rights. This once great country is seeing some dark days ahead of her.

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Go shit in your hat. Liberals? Who are the pro corporate SOBs in this country that think corps should be able to do and say anything? If anything -- to be fair-- it is both. Both take money from the aholes that want to impose this.

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No it is not both. It is the Democrats and the RINO's. The rino's are just as bad. Where is the true conservative values to stop them from spending?

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by siber:

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Empulse, you're talking to me? You're talking to me!?

---

Empulse was probably talking to me Siber, as I showed what morons his favorite political party was.


Oh and BTW Empulse, get your history facts correct. It is a violation of federal law for federal officers or medical/hospital workers to strike as well as Airline Traffic Controllers unless they make sure that EVERY plane is on the ground before they strike. The morons that Ronald Regan fired were fired NOT because they went on strike, these idiots were fired BECAUSE THEY LEFT OVER 20,000 PLANES IN THE FREAKIN AIR FILLED WITH PASSENGERS!!!! They were damn lucky they were not charged with attempted murder or they would have been charged if one person had been hurt or killed because they walked off their jobs! THAT is why they were fired and THAT is why very few of them ever were rehired. You really need to pull your head out of the MoveON.org/Daily Kook's/Huff'n'puff's arse and actually look at the REAL world.


If you cannot or will not understand that simple fact, then I really pity you as you are too far gone to reason with and are ready for a trip to the rubber room.

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

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Originally posted by empulse:

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Originally posted by xnmalletx:

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God damn it! This is America and we aren't gonna tolerate this. I don't know about anyone else around the world but there is gonna be a serious backlash when this gets enforced. Damn liberal democrats trying to take away our freedoms and rights. This once great country is seeing some dark days ahead of her.

---

Go shit in your hat. Liberals? Who are the pro corporate SOBs in this country that think corps should be able to do and say anything? If anything -- to be fair-- it is both. Both take money from the aholes that want to impose this.

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No it is not both. It is the Democrats and the RINO's. The rino's are just as bad. Where is the true conservative values to stop them from spending?

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they are at the end of my rifle

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now now while I appreciate the forward thinking concern for my well being i was merely alluding to the FACT that nothings gonna change until we put some real fear into our gov't. Everybody's so damn scared but nobody wants to fight. i read somewhere in the last few days that we fight by voting people out of office. i laughed not cuz its funny but cuz its so ironic how uneducated the educated are. George Washington didnt fight tyranny by voting...he FOUGHT!!! They walked in FEET of snow with no shoes for gods sake!! And it was still snowing. Just to intercept some German mercs that king george had hired to put down our founding fathers for standin up to his bullying. They kicked thier ass cuz of that sacrifice. We need to kick some ass now so these bitches know we mean business...otherwise we might as well just knowingly and willingly give ourselves over to foreign powers as slaves. we are practically already at that point now.
And i'm not just talkin Democrats here either. If you go against my Constitution i got a problem with you.

SoulGLOW - people won't take your comments seriously peppered with lazy and annoying text speak..

I agree, if you go against my constitution or try and make laws based on what someone thinks is there instead of what is actually there, I have a problem with them as well. What I was speaking about is not your post, but your statement of "a barrel of a gun" in the same sentence or post about federal congressional members. As I said people here in this thread know you are joshing...but we cannot say the same thing about people outside of this thread and there recently was a woman in Washington State that was placed under federal watch for 1 year just for saying that her Congress member should be pistol whipped like they did to some crooks back in the wild west.

All I am saying is please be careful of how you phrase what you mean. My grandpa used to tell me how they would actually look these politicians right in the face and tell them they should have their butts kicked and all it got them was a dirty look. Try that now and you will have a nice long prison sentence. Sigh...glad grandpa is gone as the US now is NOT what it used to be and it would tear him up to see how this country has changed so much....and not for the better.

Originally posted by Daniel_1:

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All I am saying is please be careful of how you phrase what you mean. My grandpa used to tell me how they would actually look these politicians right in the face and tell them they should have their butts kicked and all it got them was a dirty look. Try that now and you will have a nice long prison sentence. Sigh...glad grandpa is gone as the US now is NOT what it used to be and it would tear him up to see how this country has changed so much....and not for the better.

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The writer of the article lists no source?

I´ve been reading AD for a long time, and I trust it as a source of information - but that doesn´t mean you should start ignoring basic journalistic principles. Not with news articles as sensitive as this.

Originally posted by Ghostdog:

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The writer of the article lists no source?

I´ve been reading AD for a long time, and I trust it as a source of information - but that doesn´t mean you should start ignoring basic journalistic principles. Not with news articles as sensitive as this.

---

Originally posted by siber:

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mcmenace, what exactly are you planning to do?

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Creaky needs to realize that some people arent great typers. Textspeak?! not even close Mr. Mod-o-roboto-rater. He also needs to know what kinds of laws require a constitutional amendment to be legal apparently... but then again damn near the whole world let that misnomer of a (PATRIOT) bill have teeth.
Tell u what. I aint scared. not one bit. Guess George Washington was a terrorist in your eyes huh.

MCMenace has the right idea. But i bet everyone of you pays the bribe when u get a ticket or go to jail for driving w/out License, no tabs or plates or insurance. Not me. I fight it & i win cuz i have higher law on my side. All laws in this land are subservient to the US Constitution. You will probably have to appeal it, but once these judges and lawyers get slapped around by a few decisions from on high they fall in line with their oaths of office. Just don't go blaming anybody but yourselves for when this stuff gets worse. You'll be saying "Damn i wish i had fought more" cuz you'll be just like a football team that waits till the 4th quarter to start playing hard only to lose by a few points in the end. I'm fighting everyday by refusing to play their games anymore. And before any of you start in to me bout this i suggest you at least get some copies of our constitution. Get lots of em and give em out like Halloween candy

Anyway Daniel_1 I'm glad that you at least understand my position... scratch that... OUR position.

Heres some txtspk for creaky...BTW the reason these Corporations have so much power is because there was a landmark superior court case that said corporations can legally be defined as a person. thats why they seem to have more rights than an individual...well that and cuz they've got more $$$$ than you and I.

Anyway no hard feelings to NE1...sorry dude i just couldn't resist...your only comment to me was about my typing. SHEESH!!
We're all in this fight together. Remember that. Brothers in arms. peace out

SoulGLOW - Text speak/lazy typing Ps i obviously mean your other posts too, not just the ones in this thread), call it what you will, i'm afraid you're so busy objecting to a simple request to type properly that you completely misinterpreted my comment on the Patriot Act. Please read it again.

Originally posted by Ghostdog:

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The writer of the article lists no source?

I´ve been reading AD for a long time, and I trust it as a source of information - but that doesn´t mean you should start ignoring basic journalistic principles. Not with news articles as sensitive as this.

---

This is precisely why we end up losing! People don't remain focussed on the issues. People start bickering over trivial things that have little or no bearing on the issues at hand. Maybe you all should have more restraint. I've read some intelligent posts here. I'm an American! I'm not a Democrat, Republican, Indepent or otherwise with any political affiliation. We should all remember to do what is best for AMERICA and stop choosing to be a drone for any political party. Remember...AMERICA is an experiment...we are unique in history...we will make mistakes...common sense will correct them....faith in the American people(each other) will keep us moving forward. I don't presume to know everything, although I'm an educated man. Everything requires balance, i.e. book sense vs. common sense.... too much of one and not enough of the other is always a recipe for unrest. Sugar vs. Salt and so on...you get the idea. We are an experiment that's working! God Bless America!!!

After living in the US for thirty years desperately hoping and actively cooperating within the system that it would work, I decided to return to Europe because I truly believed that it was not working any longer. Europe is a much more predictable model of society and a bit boring at times. I still honestly hope America's experiment comes through. My kids live there and the American experiment remains close to my heart. Unfortunately its obsession with consumption, sports and entertainment, its complete loss of compassion for others, its political grandstanding and bullying, its religious and self-righteous pomposity have made me very cynical. Sorry.

all I can say...is 2 things

I need to check my email for the newsletter more often...

and WOW...that is scary stuff..there is too much big brother as it is..

It takes away a basic right to defend yourself when accused!

I see 3 common trains of thought here (as an empowered and educated civil rights campaigner)

1: It's a political topic, so there are going to be political comments posted.

2: Regardless of people trying to say otherwise it IS an american funded, backed and pushed idea. It's fine for them to experiment on their own citizens, but get the hell out of my back yard unless you want a big comeback.

3: It involves the removal of very fundamental rights in a totally undemocratic manner in a method which sees no gain for society, individuals or the future.

It is a very bad idea.. deny people information and knowledge and you do in effect create a system of thought slaves. If you disagree go away, read 1984, look around you and think, then come back with comments ;)

Originally posted by SoulGLOW:

---

now now while I appreciate the forward thinking concern for my well being i was merely alluding to the FACT that nothings gonna change until we put some real fear into our gov't. Everybody's so damn scared but nobody wants to fight. i read somewhere in the last few days that we fight by voting people out of office. i laughed not cuz its funny but cuz its so ironic how uneducated the educated are. George Washington didnt fight tyranny by voting...he FOUGHT!!! They walked in FEET of snow with no shoes for gods sake!! And it was still snowing. Just to intercept some German mercs that king george had hired to put down our founding fathers for standin up to his bullying. They kicked thier ass cuz of that sacrifice. We need to kick some ass now so these bitches know we mean business...otherwise we might as well just knowingly and willingly give ourselves over to foreign powers as slaves. we are practically already at that point now.
And i'm not just talkin Democrats here either. If you go against my Constitution i got a problem with you.

---

emugamer, how sad... I'm glad I'm looking from the outside in. Sieg Heil!

Originally posted by siber:

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emugamer, how sad... I'm glad I'm looking from the outside in. Sieg Heil!

---

Well said Daniel_1.

I am surprised how naive some of you are. Most elected officials would spit a baby and roast it if you gave them enough money. They are completely amoral. It is up to them to spin how they are saving their country by doing their act. The media has figured they lose trillions of dollars a year due to piracy. Mind you, only a mentally deranged entity would believe they are losing more then the total GNP of a country but that is what they believe.

They must be spending billions of dollars on a one-time fix to change the laws in all countries of the world. GB is actually way ahead on the US in that regard.

Only a TOTAL moron would believe one party is corrupt that their major party is not corrupt. In this world no matter the country, if you have enough money you can make your own justice any way you like. Because most politicians are crooks no matter where you go.

Once these laws are in place they will be nearly impossible to remove.

what is to think is that is there really any way to make difference.the is whatever we say...there is corruption and immorality everywhere...you cannot point a single place that is devoid of all this.

Originally posted by akai10:

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there is corruption and immorality everywhere...you cannot point a single place that is devoid of all this.

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well sorry about that.I did not know..what should I do..completely remove it or any modification will do...please suggest

You're serious ?. I was very clear. It needs removing.

ok..actually I did not get it clear that signatures were also not allowed..

*signature removed*

Originally posted by siber:

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After living in the US for thirty years desperately hoping and actively cooperating within the system that it would work, I decided to return to Europe because I truly believed that it was not working any longer. Europe is a much more predictable model of society and a bit boring at times. I still honestly hope America's experiment comes through. My kids live there and the American experiment remains close to my heart. Unfortunately its obsession with consumption, sports and entertainment, its complete loss of compassion for others, its political grandstanding and bullying, its religious and self-righteous pomposity have made me very cynical. Sorry.

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Wow, this 'debate' is really going all over, I absolutely love it! That being said the long of the short of it is:

Failure to get ACTA shot down will eventually hurt everyone not just the US. EVERYONE!

Originally posted by Mez:

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Well said Daniel_1.

I am surprised how naive some of you are. Most elected officials would spit a baby and roast it if you gave them enough money. They are completely amoral. It is up to them to spin how they are saving their country by doing their act. The media has figured they lose trillions of dollars a year due to piracy. Mind you, only a mentally deranged entity would believe they are losing more then the total GNP of a country but that is what they believe.

They must be spending billions of dollars on a one-time fix to change the laws in all countries of the world. GB is actually way ahead on the US in that regard.

Only a TOTAL moron would believe one party is corrupt that their major party is not corrupt. In this world no matter the country, if you have enough money you can make your own justice any way you like. Because most politicians are crooks no matter where you go.

Once these laws are in place they will be nearly impossible to remove.

---

mcmenace, the obvious anger in your tone suggests I hit a nerve. When you hit a nerve, there usually is something that hit a target. I have learned to accept criticism without going into a frenzy, so I do accept your criticism a lot easier now than when I was working my tail off in the US. It was a good experience. My daughter - born and raised in North Carolina - has recently moved to Europe, while my son lives with his European wife in the US. I visit him as often as I can and I hope he and his family do well. I look forward to all the "things you plan on doing" to resolve ACTA and political injustice in the US. If you do make even a little progress in those matters, I will be the first one to thank you. Believe me, I wouldn't be on this forum if I didn't care more about those matters than about Football, the price of gas and the cause of death of Michael Jackson.

Originally posted by creaky:

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SoulGLOW - Text speak/lazy typing Ps i obviously mean your other posts too, not just the ones in this thread), call it what you will, i'm afraid you're so busy objecting to a simple request to type properly that you completely misinterpreted my comment on the Patriot Act. Please read it again.

---

I know exactly how i come across on the forums and as i often state, i don't like it at all myself. But it's a lesser evil than leaving the place to be full of incoherence, foul language, spam, flaming etc etc.
I would rather correct everything quietly, however people wouldn't learn from their mistakes. If such time a staff member was to tell me they don't like something, that would be fine by me, however in this instance you have added nothing to the conversation with your comment and i already know how my comments look/come across.

So let's please allow the topic to get back on track.

How sad. We first went from one person claiming that it was not "his" party member that started this and then getting a bit "touched" when it was shown that it was. Then we have shown that this will not stop in just once country and will, like the blob from the 1950's horror movie; continue to grow and devoure anything in its path that threatens it including your rights and freedoms. And instead of trying to stop this in it's tracks and let our supposedly elected leaders know we wont stand for this; it has devolved into personal attacks on postings and spellings and how people type with the required "my country is better and it cannot happen here" to the absolute disgusting "America is bad so I am leaving" threat instead of staying and fighting and trying to make it better.

I am glad that my grandfather did not live to see this day as it would have killed him if old age had not got him first. If this is the result of "enlightened" people, then I fear for the future of the human race.

"Absolutely disgusting 'America is disgusting and I'm leaving'"...Lots of anger there...

"Unfortunately its obsession with consumption, sports and entertainment, its complete loss of compassion for others, its political grandstanding and bullying, its religious and self-righteous pomposity have made me very cynical." This was not a personal attack but, to my own regret, the way I truly feel.

I am not yet likely to change my mind when some of you accuse all your own politicians of being worthless and unreliable, of proposing a referendum (free of lobbying and bribing?) or just 'voting them out of office'...Who will replace them, you think? I guess it's OK to throw stones, launch personal attacks, call people who disagree with you disgusting as long as you are 'from' America and you are blessed by God. As I said earlier, this doesn't mean I don't respect you for standing up, "fighting and trying to make it better". Just don't make it all be talk and hot air in the end.

The 1st defeat for ACTA hasn't come out of America but out of the European Parlament. It's now up to you, insults and yelling won't do.

Originally posted by siber:

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mcmenace, the obvious anger in your tone suggests I hit a nerve. When you hit a nerve, there usually is something that hit a target. I have learned to accept criticism without going into a frenzy, so I do accept your criticism a lot easier now than when I was working my tail off in the US. It was a good experience. My daughter - born and raised in North Carolina - has recently moved to Europe, while my son lives with his European wife in the US. I visit him as often as I can and I hope he and his family do well. I look forward to all the "things you plan on doing" to resolve ACTA and political injustice in the US. If you do make even a little progress in those matters, I will be the first one to thank you. Believe me, I wouldn't be on this forum if I didn't care more about those matters than about Football, the price of gas and the cause of death of Michael Jackson.

---

Originally posted by siber:

---

"Absolutely disgusting 'America is disgusting and I'm leaving'"...Lots of anger there...

"Unfortunately its obsession with consumption, sports and entertainment, its complete loss of compassion for others, its political grandstanding and bullying, its religious and self-righteous pomposity have made me very cynical." This was not a personal attack but, to my own regret, the way I truly feel.

I am not yet likely to change my mind when some of you accuse all your own politicians of being worthless and unreliable, of proposing a referendum (free of lobbying and bribing?) or just 'voting them out of office'...Who will replace them, you think? I guess it's OK to throw stones, launch personal attacks, call people who disagree with you disgusting as long as you are 'from' America and you are blessed by God. As I said earlier, this doesn't mean I don't respect you for standing up, "fighting and trying to make it better". Just don't make it all be talk and hot air in the end.

The 1st defeat for ACTA hasn't come out of America but out of the European Parlament. It's now up to you, insults and yelling won't do.

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Well I feel I need to chime in again. After reading the latter posts, I was simply compelled to add some additional comments. I see the bickering has continued over things non-essential to the issue. Since reading the initial posts, I have contacted my State and U.S. representatives letting them know where I stand. I encourage all of you, who feel as I do, to do the same. We must apply as much pressure as necessary to be assured that our elected officials do what they were sent to do....represent us! I'm sorry that some here in this forum chose to leave the U.S., for whatever reason, but those whose roots are here, those that are who they are because of this country, we have a duty to protect our freedoms. This country was born from fighters! First we talked and when that didn't work, we walked....right into history and created a free society. Do your duty, fight! Don't be part of the silent majority while the vocal minority writes their own ticket! Call, write, email, twitter, facebook, blog, visit our elected officials and fight for what you know is right! If we don't, who will?

Originally posted by YOBUZZB:

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Well I feel I need to chime in again. After reading the latter posts, I was simply compelled to add some additional comments. I see the bickering has continued over things non-essential to the issue. Since reading the initial posts, I have contacted my State and U.S. representatives letting them know where I stand. I encourage all of you, who feel as I do, to do the same. We must apply as much pressure as necessary to be assured that our elected officials do what they were sent to do....represent us! I'm sorry that some here in this forum chose to leave the U.S., for whatever reason, but those whose roots are here, those that are who they are because of this country, we have a duty to protect our freedoms. This country was born from fighters! First we talked and when that didn't work, we walked....right into history and created a free society. Do your duty, fight! Don't be part of the silent majority while the vocal minority writes their own ticket! Call, write, email, twitter, facebook, blog, visit our elected officials and fight for what you know is right! If we don't, who will?

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I don't expect the battles are over. These are very determined people from the world of Private Enterprise with lots of money and very skilled legal advisers.

Originally posted by siber:

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I don't expect the battles are over. These are very determined people from the world of Private Enterprise with lots of money and very skilled legal advisers.

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All this is just Propaganda.....like a little bumper sticker or any another Warning sign.

They do not have the Money and the Man Power to Control nobody.!

Amen.

Originally posted by Mrguss:

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All this is just Propaganda.....like a little bumper sticker or any another Warning sign.

They do not have the Money and the Man Power to Control nobody.!

Amen.

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Originally posted by Daniel_1:

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Originally posted by Mrguss:

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All this is just Propaganda.....like a little bumper sticker or any another Warning sign.

They do not have the Money and the Man Power to Control nobody.!

Amen.

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Really? Tell that to the MPAA and the RIAA and to the people who's lives they have ruined and then try and come back here with a straight face and say that again. But dont be a bit surprised when you are laughed at.

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Say what, Mrguss?

Originally posted by Mrguss:

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Originally posted by Daniel_1:

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Originally posted by Mrguss:

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All this is just Propaganda.....like a little bumper sticker or any another Warning sign.

They do not have the Money and the Man Power to Control nobody.!

Amen.

---

Really? Tell that to the MPAA and the RIAA and to the people who's lives they have ruined and then try and come back here with a straight face and say that again. But dont be a bit surprised when you are laughed at.

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If the Goverment that have more Money and Man Power that them wherever; Can't Control 13 Millions illegals......do you really think this People can Controll +80 Millions of us ?

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I agree with you ZippyDSM a 100%.
I was an illigal (Mexico. Toluca City). Now I am a Citizen. Been here for awhile.......

I was just talking a comparation to see the quantity in real Numbers of People they have to deal with.

What they can do? ......NOTHING !!!

Originally posted by Mrguss:

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I agree with you ZippyDSM a 100%.
I was an illigal (Mexico. Toluca City). Now I am a Citizen. Been here for awhile.......

I was just talking a comparation to see the quantity in real Numbers of People they have to deal with.

What they can do? ......NOTHING !!!

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I Agree with you againg ZippyDSM a 100%:

The illegal comunity: They are not going to "NO WHERE". They need to be put in the same System we are; To have in the long run a Better Country.

The System of "Rules" that the Goverment have is to make money from us one way or another. Same thing with "Casinos" they are there to rip people off (10 to 90).

Now: SPSs "rules" samething; They are there to increase revenue to those "Greedy Corporations Cartels" like: EMI, SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER and Others alike (Around 10 Billions Dollars each year they make already) protected by Grups like RIAA, EUCD, WIPO, DMCA, etc. They not only already strip from Artists of theirs Copyright interest as a "Work Made For Hire" on 1999 and Transfer those Interest to the Record Labels and others things........Now they want us too ?

"WE THE PEOPLE".....We are more that them !!!
Thanks to "OUR MONEY" they are who they are.

Sorry: "ISPs Rules"

Originally posted by Mrguss:

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Sorry: "ISPs Rules"

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Originally posted by siber:

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Say what, Mrguss?

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Originally posted by mcmenace:

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Originally posted by siber:

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Say what, Mrguss?

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Again you look for argument, but have absolutely nothing to say.
Whine on, was waiting for you to put forth something intelligent since you are monitoring this thread and after jumping in several conversations and questioning people like they don't know what they are talking about, when questioned yourself, you say nothing.
Open mouth, insert foot.
Pull it out now, it's obvious where you're coming from.
mcm

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Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Anyway I agree more or less, the system we have before us has been tweaked over the last few decades to serve those in and around it and not the people its meant to serve...

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Originally posted by Mrguss:

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Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Anyway I agree more or less, the system we have before us has been tweaked over the last few decades to serve those in and around it and not the people its meant to serve...

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The Main Problem here is the making of "THE CORPORATIONS" and they "GREED AGENDA" where on top of the Shark's list are "Our Goverment" and the "Credit Cards" Co's. just to mention some of them.

Where our way of living is going backward to the Point that we start to feel like "WE ARE THE NEXT GENERATION OF SLAVES" we like it or not !

"I thought I left Mexico Long Time Ago; BUT NOT: The Monopolys are rainning on my back once again, like a NASTY MONKIES"

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Well, Canada have a better way of living that USA. So far Canada do not have a Big Economic Problems like USA or Mexico combined....some how they been manage things better.

The Problem with USA is that we are not United 'cos we all have diff. Backgrounds is like "We The Latinos we are not United either" like Blacks, whites, Arabs or Orientals they United. We are not ! and the Government and Corporations know that.

So if we want to change our System, we need to work as one agains "Corporations Rules" supported "half-way" by our own Government.
Just like is been happenning with Corporations and Others to make use of our Own Credit Reports AGAINS US, when they should be a confidential issue Protected by the 3 Credit Bureaus....is just pure BS !!!

ZippyDSM, I like that last statement. In order to change the things you and others are concerned about, you have to have a government without corruption and without narrow interests.

There is no perfect government anywhere in the world. On a corruption index of the political world, the US and Mexico are somewhere in the middle, which should say something. The best index is found in Scandinavian countries. Canada's is very good.

We can limit lobbying, make politicians less interested in personal gain by having them rely entirely on a salary, increase oversight and expedite punishment for transgressions. Term limits and preventing politicians later on from switching to the private world where they can use their knowledge and influence to circumvent the system might be considered. These measures are needed to advance the American Experiment and pull it back on track towards the common interest of all the American people as well as the rest of us.

ACTA and its future variations on the same theme will need watching.

whatever happened to His Majesty, dare i say that he may have been riding thy noble steed north facing the south star.

Actually quite funny there, DXR88. I was provoked by my good friend mcmenace to say something positive, so I tried.

SPAM removed

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Originally posted by Daniel_1:

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Originally posted by Mrguss:

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All this is just Propaganda.....like a little bumper sticker or any another Warning sign.

They do not have the Money and the Man Power to Control nobody.!

Amen.

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Really? Tell that to the MPAA and the RIAA and to the people who's lives they have ruined and then try and come back here with a straight face and say that again. But dont be a bit surprised when you are laughed at.

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If the Goverment that have more Money and Man Power that them wherever; Can't Control 13 Millions illegals......do you really think this People can Controll +80 Millions of us ?

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See here ~ http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_jump.cfm/816086/4935896

My point exactly Creaky...if they want you they will get you and there is nowhere you can hide. When I was in the military back in the 1980's they had sats that could count the dimples on a golf ball from 350 miles into space and could zoom in to tell you what color bra Posh Spice was wearing at any given moment. And there is no way you are going to tell me that they have not improved it by now.


Here is a spooky thought, a fact but a thought non-the-less...ALL the computer programs and devices you see used in Will Smiths/Gene hackman's Enemy of the State and Diane Lane's untraceable movies...actually exist!!! They tell you this in the credits when you read what Federal Spook agency they give credit to and they give you just enough info to scare you because if you really knew what was available to them...you would never leave your home again. And with the GPS for the cells, they can now track you by your mobile (cell phone) to withing 5 feet of your present location no matter if it is on or off. All it has to do is be able to receive a signal and your cooked.

So we will go down fighting, but 1984 just happened a few years after the original date.

hey , Really? Tell that to the MPAA and the RIAA and to the people who's lives they have ruined and then try and come back here with a straight face and say that again. But dont be a bit surprised when you are laughed at SPAM removed. If the Goverment that have SPAM removed and Man Power that them wherever; Can't Control 13 Millions illegals......do you really think this People can Controll +80 Millions of us ?

Originally posted by moremony:

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hey , Really? Tell that to the MPAA and the RIAA and to the people who's lives they have ruined and then try and come back here with a straight face and say that again. But dont be a bit surprised when you are laughed at SPAM removed. If the Goverment that have SPAM removed and Man Power that them wherever; Can't Control 13 Millions illegals......do you really think this People can Controll +80 Millions of us ?

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Be afraid, be very afraid. It is true that "Big Brother" is intruding more and more into our personal lives. I am not sure it is quite as bad in the US - as of yet - as it is suggested by Daniel_1, but there is reason for concern.

ACTA would eliminate Due Process (Holding the government subservient to the law of the land, protecting individual persons from the State)and I don't think it will pass muster yet. It is just scary that it is even being considered in a country that champions "Human Rights and Equality For All" in its Constitution.

When I asked people what they planned to actually DO about things, I apparently irritated some folks. I was not suggesting anything else than that we all needed to remain vigilant, participate in the voting process and let our elected officials know we were expecting them to abide by the laws in place or else...

Unfortunately, I have no reason to believe that the majority of the American public has a clue about what is happening in their own backyard. I see little else than obsession with money, television and sports. Hopefully, one of these days that will change.

Originally posted by siber:

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Be afraid, be very afraid. It is true that "Big Brother" is intruding more and more into our personal lives. I am not sure it is quite as bad in the US - as of yet - as it is suggested by Daniel_1, but there is reason for concern.

ACTA would eliminate Due Process (Holding the government subservient to the law of the land, protecting individual persons from the State)and I don't think it will pass muster yet. It is just scary that it is even being considered in a country that champions "Human Rights and Equality For All" in its Constitution.

When I asked people what they planned to actually DO about things, I apparently irritated some folks. I was not suggesting anything else than that we all needed to remain vigilant, participate in the voting process and let our elected officials know we were expecting them to abide by the laws in place or else...

Unfortunately, I have no reason to believe that the majority of the American public has a clue about what is happening in their own backyard. I see little else than obsession with money, television and sports. Hopefully, one of these days that will change.

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Daniel_1, I have no reason to doubt what you are saying. The technology to keep an eye on anybody and everybody is there. It will only get even more sophisticated and scary.

What matters at this point, I think, is that all this information not be used inappropriately. As long as the public doesn't react at all and remains apathetic, we can be guaranteed that it WILL be used for purposes that have no place in a true Democracy "by the People for the People". I am hopeful but not optimistic. Clearly, you are not either.

Originally posted by siber:

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Daniel_1, I have no reason to doubt what you are saying. The technology to keep an eye on anybody and everybody is there. It will only get even more sophisticated and scary.

What matters at this point, I think, is that all this information not be used inappropriately. As long as the public doesn't react at all and remains apathetic, we can be guaranteed that it WILL be used for purposes that have no place in a true Democracy "by the People for the People". I am hopeful but not optimistic. Clearly, you are not either.

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Originally posted by Daniel_1:

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...there is nowhere you can hide. When I was in the military back in the 1980's they had sats that could count the dimples on a golf ball from 350 miles into space and could zoom in to tell you what color bra Posh Spice was wearing at any given moment. And there is no way you are going to tell me that they have not improved it by now.

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Originally posted by KillerBug:

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Originally posted by Daniel_1:

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...there is nowhere you can hide. When I was in the military back in the 1980's they had sats that could count the dimples on a golf ball from 350 miles into space and could zoom in to tell you what color bra Posh Spice was wearing at any given moment. And there is no way you are going to tell me that they have not improved it by now.

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So you are saying that the only way to avoid detection with such a system is to be in one of the programed "blind spots" like Area 51 or Camp David? If this is the case, I think I know where Osama is hiding.

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edited this out as the latest draft, according to a leak summarized on the Boing Boing website doesn't show anything different to the initial AD article.

"Full prohibitions on breaking DRM,"

The EU has already announced that 'portability' is a key issue. That is, that once you've bought your music track or film, you MUST be able to play it on ANY device you own.
From documents I've seen* this seems to be one of the EU's bargaining chips - allow 'portability' and we'll support all the other stuff (three strikes and out etc.)
But making all media 'portable' would seem to spell the end of DRM.

(* can't remember the site, but there is an EU site which deals with legal issues surrounding the media industry. It's written for/by lawyers - very heavy stuff - but it's very 'interesting')

Originally posted by AIPO:

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"Full prohibitions on breaking DRM,"

The EU has already announced that 'portability' is a key issue. That is, that once you've bought your music track or film, you MUST be able to play it on ANY device you own.
From documents I've seen* this seems to be one of the EU's bargaining chips - allow 'portability' and we'll support all the other stuff (three strikes and out etc.)
But making all media 'portable' would seem to spell the end of DRM.

(* can't remember the site, but there is an EU site which deals with legal issues surrounding the media industry. It's written for/by lawyers - very heavy stuff - but it's very 'interesting')

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