Sony confirms it must delay restoration of PSN

not the best news but better to be 100% safe so take as long as it needs loads of great SP games to finish.

It will never be 100% safe...it is Sony. They started with great security; the best of any gaming platform in history...and then they cut corners until it was a joke. Even if sony does the security correctly this time, they will just let it rot away again...Sony NEVER learns lessons.

that is your opinion not mine I think they will do there best to try & prevent it. the system would still be running if the hackers left it alone I blame them.

I blame Sony, look at it this way. If Sony were a bank they wouldn't have a vault and would just stack the money on tables. At night they would lock the public glass doors but leave the employs door cracked open with a quarter. I wouldn't bank there. Yes anyone taking the money would be wrong but not using a vault and other forms of securing the bank is Sonys wrong.

Originally posted by themind:

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I blame Sony, look at it this way. If Sony were a bank they wouldn't have a vault and would just stack the money on tables. At night they would lock the public glass doors but leave the employs door cracked open with a quarter. I wouldn't bank there. Yes anyone taking the money would be wrong but not using a vault and other forms of securing the bank is Sonys wrong.

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so right...

man last year I moved from xbox 360 to sony ps3 only because they offered free online gaming, and now I have to go through this crap... I still refuse to pay xbox's fees because I don't play online enough to pay but I want to play online when I feel like it, and think it's wrong for them to charge... and after it's all set and done no matter where you go you'll be @## raped :<

There is always PC...the games cost less and online gaming is free for most games. Plus, homebrew is not only accepted, but encouraged. Developers even release tools to make game modding easier!

Too bad that building a PC to match the graphics of a $300 PS3 costs $600+.

Why would anyone trust their banking details to a game console anyways?

Beyond stupid if you ask me.

Originally posted by Interestx:

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Why would anyone trust their banking details to a game console anyways?

Beyond stupid if you ask me.

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You're not serious, are you?

It's Sony. They do not listen to the customer. It sucks that their services are down but at the same time they asked for it. By attacking the hacker population with law suits and removal of Other OS they essential kicked a hornets nest. There will always be piracy and hackers will always crack what ever security they put in.

Loyal sony fans are learning the same lessons that loyal nazi supporters learned in WWII.

The PSN being down right now really is not interrupting my life at all. I have lots of other things I can do. Worrying about my address being stolen really isn't a concern since that is like public info anyways. Sony can't rush the re-launch of PSN and I don't want them to.

Originally posted by KillerBug:

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There is always PC...the games cost less and online gaming is free for most games. Plus, homebrew is not only accepted, but encouraged. Developers even release tools to make game modding easier!

Too bad that building a PC to match the graphics of a $300 PS3 costs $600+.

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Modding games, isn't home brew. it's modding.

And that $600 PS would be a 3gig I7 or 6core AMD CPU, with a better GFX chip than any of the consoles, in other words be top line stuff PC stuff is extremely cheap right now.

As the new stuff isn't out now and probably a few years before the next level comes out for the PC.

What if I want to play Uncharted? :S

+1 to the bank analogy!!!! (Srry I can't quote for some reason)

ANYONE that has anything valuable of their own or especialy someone else's needs to know there are people out there that would take it from them if given the opportunity. If you entrust something of value (say your financial info) to someone (say Sony) you must be able to trust they are taking the proper steps to keep it safe and out of the hands of those who would like to take it.

I can't understand anyone that can't see that not only did Sony not take the proper steps to keep your info safe BUT they also took the further steps of repeatedly pissing off just the people who could take it.

Sony brought this on themselves! I really feel bad for those who's info is now out in the wild but don't think Sony isn't to blame for a second.

If your info is at risk and you haven't taken steps to secure it (cancel your CC or have the # changed AND taken advantage of the free identity theft protection) then I blame you as well if you get taken because of this...

@KillerBug man that is lost it! Sony make great games that is why I got the console never let me down. your a Sony hater so every comment you make is putting them down because you never got your own way.

The bank analogy is not correct as it is excessively unrealistic & over the top. I believe this is a better example ~ When you walk into a bank the vault doors are always open for business. Is that a vulnerability? Yes. Does that mean you could, let alone should, just walk up to it and take money. No. Does it happen YES. By CRIMINALS who want to exploit the vulnerability. Just because you "can" does not mean you "should". I really don't understand the amount of excuses in support to those who STOLE YOUR INFORMATION to begin with.

The server vulnerability was a known exploit to the world that many other companies had/have as well. Do I believe Sony was ignorant to an extent? Hell Yes. Did Sony deserve some sort of "attack" on them? That is up to each individual to say so. But does the end user, consumer or owner of said product deserve what has happened to them? Nope. Not one bit. If you believe otherwise then there is no discussion with you to be had. Only an argument of which gets no one nowhere. Additionally there are many more exploits out there (known and unknown) and it is absolutely impossible to protect against all of them.

You have a problem with "Sony" go right ahead and "attack" them, don't buy their products, whatever. But what does Joe Public have to do with this? They bear no culpability in this whatsoever, and now have to deal with risk issues when it comes to their details.

Originally posted by kikzm33z:

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You're not serious, are you?

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Yes indeed I am......but then I'm not one of those dumb enough to go in for on-line banking either.

However you slice it it is asking for trouble and the consumer is always going to be a distant 2nd or 3rd best consideration in the convenience & operation of that type of business.

Go further down the food-chain - waaaaaaay down the food-chain to game consoles - and (as we can plainly see) the situation is just so much worse.

Maybe some won't be quite so blazé about these things in future, but I doubt it, people seem to fall over themselves to hand out all sorts of personal info about themselves and financial info is often just as freely given.

It's quite insane in my opinion.
You're welcome to yours......I just hope your details aren't being sold off & you don't end up grossly inconvenienced by this nonsense.

@Oner makes perfect sense to me totally agree.

@Oner

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I really don't understand the amount of excuses in support to those who STOLE YOUR INFORMATION to begin with.

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I never gave an excuse for anyone that broke the law.

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The bank analogy is not correct as it is excessively unrealistic & over the top.

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You said it yourself, it was a known vulnerability, hence front door is locked, back door was not. As for leaving the money on the table with no vault, that's because all the personal info - was not - at all - encrypted.

Damn was pissed initially but then again what am I paying for PSN? Wish the weather outside was better though.

Originally posted by themind:

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@Oner

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I really don't understand the amount of excuses in support to those who STOLE YOUR INFORMATION to begin with.

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I never gave an excuse for anyone that broke the law.

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That wasn't aimed at you (nor anyone for that matter), just a general comment as to what I have seen everywhere.

Originally posted by themind:

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The bank analogy is not correct as it is excessively unrealistic & over the top.

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You said it yourself, it was a known vulnerability, hence front door is locked, back door was not. As for leaving the money on the table with no vault, that's because all the personal info - was not - at all - encrypted.

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Still doesn't make it right. Plus that vulnerability was a recent one, and up until that point it WAS invulnerable. That is the nature of the beast, in this case and many others (banks, government agencies etc). And to say "all the personal info was not at all encrypted" is not exactly the whole correct story/information now is it ~

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One other point to clarify is from this weekend’s press conference. While the passwords that were stored were not “encrypted,” they were transformed using a cryptographic hash function. There is a difference between these two types of security measures which is why we said the passwords had not been encrypted. But I want to be very clear that the passwords were not stored in our database in cleartext form. For a description of the difference between encryption and hashing, follow this link.

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Source

Either way it's a moot subject, as whoever is responsible for doing this I would guess to believe are probably skilled enough to bypass an "encryption" as well.

I'm having trouble seeing how it wasn't somehow an employee of Sony who either directly or indirectly led to this. It's much more logical than thinking any hacker did this without insider info.

Originally posted by KillerBug:

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It will never be 100% safe...it is Sony. They started with great security; the best of any gaming platform in history...and then they cut corners until it was a joke. Even if sony does the security correctly this time, they will just let it rot away again...Sony NEVER learns lessons.

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Sorry i would disagree, some of the reports from forensic security analysis shows Sony had out of date software that was never patched and even worse there were no firewalls in place. You say they started with great security or were you simply trying to joke? That is actually no security, not even poor, how is that they started with great security when none existed?

Can they just please restore this asap because i wanna sign in and i hope also that they make the security a lot stronger than what it was. Can we please have a date time frame something.

Originally posted by SomeBozo:

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Originally posted by KillerBug:

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It will never be 100% safe...it is Sony. They started with great security; the best of any gaming platform in history...and then they cut corners until it was a joke. Even if sony does the security correctly this time, they will just let it rot away again...Sony NEVER learns lessons.

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Sorry i would disagree, some of the reports from forensic security analysis shows Sony had out of date software that was never patched and even worse there were no firewalls in place. You say they started with great security or were you simply trying to joke? That is actually no security, not even poor, how is that they started with great security when none existed?

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Their people did install backdoors if you are to believe the image that came with the sony press conference...and it is widely known that they declined updates for their firewalls (what were they doing with those 8-10 hour maintenance periods?). But before the backdoors and before the firewalls were outdated, the DoD was an easier hack than Sony.

Originally posted by borhan9:

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Can they just please restore this asap because i wanna sign in and i hope also that they make the security a lot stronger than what it was. Can we please have a date time frame something.

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Yes, they promised it will be back online by April 23, the 24th at the latest...one Sony lie is as good as another, so just be happy with that.

Originally posted by Run4two:

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I'm having trouble seeing how it wasn't somehow an employee of Sony who either directly or indirectly led to this. It's much more logical than thinking any hacker did this without insider info.

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That is a given; they installed backdoors and spent the maintenance periods getting drunk at a karaoke bar rather than doing the updates...I would say that a lot of sony employees are responsible, even if none of them did the attack.

Originally posted by Oner:

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Still doesn't make it right. Plus that vulnerability was a recent one, and up until that point it WAS invulnerable. That is the nature of the beast, in this case and many others (banks, government agencies etc). And to say "all the personal info was not at all encrypted" is not exactly the whole correct story/information now is it ~

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I never claimed that stealing CC numbers was right...I defended the denial of service attacks because they are essentially digital picket lines. Physical picket lines are a constitutionally guaranteed right in my country, and I fail to see how digital picket lines are any different. There is no doubt that stealing CC & other personal info is a crime, or that it is wrong...but we live in a society where people do wrong (just look at Washington DC).

I know this is about the 50th bank analogy, but I think this one has all the bits...

The First National Bank of Sony was robbed last night. The robbers went in through the back door to the vault; the one that isn't within view of cameras (according to the sony diagram, they went in through unmonitored back doors that had no firewalls or security of any kind). They showed up all ready to crack a lock, and found that the door was just hanging open...so they walked right into the vault. The night security guard had died 10 months before, and the bank manager new this, but not hire a new guard, assuming the smell of the corpse would be enough to keep robbers away. The robbers were prepared for this however, as bank customers were posting online about having to step over the dead security guard in order to get to their security boxes. So, they put on their perfume-sprayed masks and cleaned out the vault. They then went into the bank and found the hardcopy files for every customer who had ever banked there...these records were secured...with a lock that someone got in a box of cracker jacks. Police reported that the thieves chose to pick this lock rather than smashing it...just because it was so easy to do.

Originally posted by brockie:

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@KillerBug man that is lost it! Sony make great games that is why I got the console never let me down. your a Sony hater so every comment you make is putting them down because you never got your own way.

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I can only think of one game made by Sony that I like...and it isn't much fun without online play...on top of that, it was released 4 years behind schedule.

But you are right; I am a Sony hater...15 months ago I was proud to call myself a Sony fanboy...and their actions since then have made me a Sony hater. It isn't like I am some devoted Xbox fan here to trash Sony because they are on the other team...Microsoft did not make me hate Sony...Sony did.

I have owned 2 PS3s, more than 10 PS2s, and as many PS1s...I never owned a 360, and I owned only one original Xbox, which I used as a media center (I didn't own a single game, and I converted all four controller ports to real USB ports)...after a track record like that, it seems only logical that I would end up buying 1-5 PS4 consoles, but I will not buy any, and if someone gives me one, it is going on ebay (unless I can find a way to use it to f**k sony).

I have said that my next system will either be a Windows PC or the next XboX...and this is not a happy thing for me to say...the PC is expensive; not only to build initially, but to constantly upgrade as new games require new hardware on the PC, yet work fine with old hardware on consoles. The xbox is even less appealing...knowing the build quality standards at microsoft, I would have to add the price of a 3 year extended warranty to the purchase price...and then I would have to pay for online play as well. So, it will probably be the PC, it might be the next xbox, and it certainly WILL NOT be a PS4 (unless I can use it to f**k sony).

Meh...Yeah you absolutely right...The person(s) that did this are (insert your favorite explitive)s. What my point was is Sony is not blameless in this at all either. Being they are making a point of poking the hornets nest lately to say they begged for it is not a far stretch to me.

Originally posted by KillerBug:

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I have said that my next system will either be a Windows PC or the next XboX...and this is not a happy thing for me to say...the PC is expensive; not only to build initially, but to constantly upgrade as new games require new hardware on the PC, yet work fine with old hardware on consoles. The xbox is even less appealing...knowing the build quality standards at microsoft, I would have to add the price of a 3 year extended warranty to the purchase price...and then I would have to pay for online play as well. So, it will probably be the PC, it might be the next xbox, and it certainly WILL NOT be a PS4 (unless I can use it to f**k sony).

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Cost are not directly money either... I would suspect the people that are going to get exploited by the credit card and cvn number leaks will get hit in 6 month or a year, a lot of the information doesn't change and people will be paying less attentions then. Back to my point, if you get hit by identity theft it will take a lot of your own time, labor and frustration. If you've owned that much Sony hardware, i would guess you have a decent job and pay rate, I would argue that is the cost for each hour you'd need to spend to clear up S*ny's snafu if the worse happend...

I would argue a PC might be a little more expensive at first, you can use them for running any other software as well. I'll say i'm not a big console fan, i could never get use to the annoying controllers. Give me a FPS on the PC and i own, many thanks to my Sidewinder System Commander, I can easily do moves you almost never could do on a console unless you had 2 more hands. Also most games on the console appear to me to be dumbed down, I like RTS games, and seen one on the PC that was ported to consoles, and all my friends that played it on the PC and also bought the console all complained the game was nerfed really bad in many ways.

Upkeep for the latest games is about the same? PC <-> Console games fetch about the same price on both, while i do like the idea of Live on xbox and getting access to free or cheap games, sometimes these seem better then the high priced glossy mega hits :)

It is funny that they are using the word "rebuild" in every article I see. I among other PS3 owners were shocked to see that they had such a lack of security. They cannot rebuild what they never really had. They have to BUILD a secure from the ground up and that actually takes time and cannot be done in 3 weeks. I do not know why they were blowing smoke in the beginning.