HTC EVO 4G gets release date, price

Drool.....

If anyone knows why I shouldn't grab one of these and a matching plan let me know, because I plan to to have a great 1st weekend of June....

Cost specs:
phone is $450 with a $150 discount for 2yr contract plus $100 mir. so thats
the $200 (199.99 actually) so that seams reasonable. rumor has it that bestbuy will not require the mir, just an extra $100 off.

fees:
$36 activation - anyone know how to get sprint to wave it?

plans:
$70 is unlimited text/data/m2m-voice
+ $10 for 'premium data' which is required by sprint weather or not you are in a 4g area.
but still, $80/mn is comparable to at&t/verizon for their unlimited plans... actually can be $5-$7 cheaper....

if you want to add official tethering it's $30 a month, but with that
being standard in the next version of android, i will hold off and see
what android can do for me....

comments most appreciated...

thanks,
-JamK

My main problem with this phone is the network...if it were in verizon for $200 with 2 year contract, it would be a great deal...but "unlimited data" does not mean much when you can't get signal...and 4G is rather pointless when it has a speed limit that is less than that of fast 3G.

As for tethering, you can get that for free if you root the phone. Otherwise, you can get a USB tethering app for $20, and then you never have to pay for tethering. Only suckers pay for tethering.

Last, Android 2.1 is junk. 2.0.1 was quick, and 2.2 looks like it is going to be even faster, but 2.1 is very slow. You could fix this with root as well...but not until someone has figured a way to root this phone, and that can't even start to happen until release.

KillerBug you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

"4G is rather pointless when it has a speed limit that is less than that of fast 3G"

And for the record, this afterdawn 'news' is about 4 days late.

That is what I have seen so far...3G is limited to 14.0 down/5.8 up (tho even those speeds are not available yet AFAIK)

Now, clearwire is the company that provides 4G for sprint...and their own website says the speed limit is 6.0 down/ 1.0 up.

So, current 4G gives less than half the downstream and about 1/6 the upstream of 3G at full speed. 4G has a lot of theoretical speed, but the current speed limit is considerably slower than the limits of 3G. That is why it is pointless...it is like having a USB 3.0 flash drive that is slower than a fast USB 2.0 unit.

Originally posted by KillerBug:

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My main problem with this phone is the network...if it were in verizon for $200 with 2 year contract, it would be a great deal...but "unlimited data" does not mean much when you can't get signal...and 4G is rather pointless when it has a speed limit that is less than that of fast 3G.

As for tethering, you can get that for free if you root the phone. Otherwise, you can get a USB tethering app for $20, and then you never have to pay for tethering. Only suckers pay for tethering.

Last, Android 2.1 is junk. 2.0.1 was quick, and 2.2 looks like it is going to be even faster, but 2.1 is very slow. You could fix this with root as well...but not until someone has figured a way to root this phone, and that can't even start to happen until release.

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I agree you have no idea what your saying. "but "unlimited data" does not mean much when you can't get signal...and 4G is rather pointless when it has a speed limit that is less than that of fast 3G."
Iv had sprint forever and have never had a problem with service, i love my service. with any cell phone company it just depends on where you live. And 4g is suppose to be 10 times faster, if you live in one of their covered cities. Annd anythinggg can be done on a phone, and thats the only place i agree with you on, when you say anyone who pays for tethering are suckers. because there are already apps out there that do it for free. even without a first time charge.
verizon is known for having the best service, but if i cant tell the difference with sprint than whats the point in having that title?..

If you can't tell the difference with sprint, then you are in a lucky spot. Here in Tampa, FL sprint is terrible...my freinds on AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, and Boost all have 3G issues at my house, but verizon works great. Verizon clearly has the best service here...and if it is equal there, then that makes no difference to me; if I am ever wherever you are, I will still have signal. If you come to my house, you will not have signal.

4G is supposed to be gigabit wimax...but sprint's 4G is through clearwire, and clearwire sets a terribly slow limit on their service. 4G is not supposed to be 10x faster, even Clearwire does not make such sensationalist claims; and this is a company that still calls DSL fast.

In theory, at top speed, 4G is a lot faster than 3G at top speed...but current 4G isn't even close to the limits of 3G...and if clearwire 4G is 10x faster, then that just means that their 3G is running at less than 1/20th the speed it could...and if this is the case, then their 3G network isn't just small, it is also slow.

There's a hater up in here.

Not a hater.. somebody who doesn't live in Noo York where everything is provided by everybody 24/7

I know exactly what you mean KB .. I'm stuck on one phone provider here.. the others are poor signal/no signal, (same with the tv signal actually.. we are down in a hole) and it's not nice having to go stand out in the road on top of the wall to make a call on a different network.

your report sounds like direct observation, not some marketing crap off an affiliated advertiser website. I'm going with your info.. If I come to Tampa I will get me a pay and go Verizon .. cheers for that :)

People seem to like them otherwise.. I hear good reports, but as KB so rightly points out, if they (or you) are locked to one provider, and that provider can't be bothered providing the service to support the device, then what is the point in buying one?

http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/opensource/?p=994

Would you buy a pair of made to measure shoes if you were paralyzed from the neck down?.. didn't think so.. hehehehe .. hey KB .. is it me or do more and more people seem paralyzed from the neck up these days? Basic reasoning skills are becoming a rarity .. Homer Simpson syndrome.. "ooooo.. shiny.. must have shiny"

Originally posted by KillerBug:

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If you can't tell the difference with sprint, then you are in a lucky spot. Here in Tampa, FL sprint is terrible...my freinds on AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, and Boost all have 3G issues at my house, but verizon works great. Verizon clearly has the best service here...and if it is equal there, then that makes no difference to me; if I am ever wherever you are, I will still have signal. If you come to my house, you will not have signal.

4G is supposed to be gigabit wimax...but sprint's 4G is through clearwire, and clearwire sets a terribly slow limit on their service. 4G is not supposed to be 10x faster, even Clearwire does not make such sensationalist claims; and this is a company that still calls DSL fast.

In theory, at top speed, 4G is a lot faster than 3G at top speed...but current 4G isn't even close to the limits of 3G...and if clearwire 4G is 10x faster, then that just means that their 3G is running at less than 1/20th the speed it could...and if this is the case, then their 3G network isn't just small, it is also slow.

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I live in tampa, and travel all 50 states. I have tried ALL carriers over the years, and the only one that consistently works where all others don't is Sprint.

I can't tell you how may of my reps say, "don't bother trying to make a call here, no one's cell phone works here"... Mine always works.

Originally posted by KillerBug:

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My main problem with this phone is the network...if it were in verizon for $200 with 2 year contract, it would be a great deal...but "unlimited data" does not mean much when you can't get signal...and 4G is rather pointless when it has a speed limit that is less than that of fast 3G.

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Thanks for the info Killer....

This will be my first Sprint phone, so I am leery of the coverage, but I do have a few friends with Sprint and so far they seam to be happy with their service in my area... I will drill them for more details before I sign up just to make sure....

As for the 6mbs limit on 4g... yeah, that would defeat the whole purpose of 4g... does clearwire do all of sprints wimax, or is this who sprint uses in Florida? I couldn't find anything on sprint's site about 4g speed limits, but info on 4g is sparse anyway....

on the other hand... even 6mbs would be an improvement around here for our 3g... I have a "laptop connect" card using at&t's 3g service and the best I ever got was just under 2mbs... I always thought that was great for a cell phone network.. had no idea 3g could be faster... with verizons laptop connect card I got got about the same.... this was from measuring various locations where 3g showed full bars and just hitting speakeasy.net/speedtest

Thanks again for your insights...
-JamK

So we obviously can't argue over which carrier has the better reception b/c it is directly related to where you use the phone. The better argument is on which phone preforms better when they both have the most signal they can get. I have sprint so my opinion may be a little biased and therefore I won't argue on which I think is better. I've been with them for a long time (10 years) so again my opinion really means nothing b/c I haven't even used any other carrier.

I think an important aspect is the actual network that these carriers use. For information on that check out:

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-diff...sm-and-cdma.htm

I feel that AT&T, and others that use the GSM Network, work better in rural areas b/c GSM has been around a lot longer and they have invested in building towers out in the boonies. However, I do feel that the CDMA is the faster data connection and that is why I've always stuck with Sprint.

Now the new "Simply Everything" plans that Sprint offers is IMHO the best bang for the buck. They have just started free mobile to mobile that includes every cellular carrier (which means only landline calls use your anytime minutes). Therefore, I have the $69.99 simply everything plan and it come with "unlimited" (actually only 5 gb) data, texts and mms with 450 anytime minutes (only used on landlines); Sprint also offers a great GPS for free (use all the time; it's kind of slow to start up but works great), NFL network (I don't use) and Sprint TV (again don't use). This is bound to be a target for the other carriers and I'm sure will soon be outdone by them. But until then Verizon and AT&T can't compete with that price.

I honestly don't think AT&T is even trying to compete anymore; they just look at their customers and say "do you want the iphone or not", and the suckers pay up! haha!

I had to throw at least one jab in there!!

I really think this phone is bad ass and of course would like to have one, but I think it’s missing an important feature, a physical keyboard!!

Oh, as far as the 4G network having a cap that is lower than 3G. I don't know if that's true or not, if Killer says so than I have no reason not to believe him, but the cap is not the important part; it's what speeds you actually get on the device. I would think that with all the money being invested in the new 4G network you would see faster speeds, but I have no idea. I can't even get 4G coverage where I'm at (not yet anyway).

Originally posted by dirtyash:

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So we obviously can't argue over which carrier has the better reception b/c it is directly related to where you use the phone. The better argument is on which phone preforms better when they both have the most signal they can get. I have sprint so my opinion may be a little biased and therefore I won't argue on which I think is better. I've been with them for a long time (10 years) so again my opinion really means nothing b/c I haven't even used any other carrier.

I think an important aspect is the actual network that these carriers use. For information on that check out:

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-diff...sm-and-cdma.htm

I feel that AT&T, and others that use the GSM Network, work better in rural areas b/c GSM has been around a lot longer and they have invested in building towers out in the boonies. However, I do feel that the CDMA is the faster data connection and that is why I've always stuck with Sprint.

Now the new "Simply Everything" plans that Sprint offers is IMHO the best bang for the buck. They have just started free mobile to mobile that includes every cellular carrier (which means only landline calls use your anytime minutes). Therefore, I have the $69.99 simply everything plan and it come with "unlimited" (actually only 5 gb) data, texts and mms with 450 anytime minutes (only used on landlines); Sprint also offers a great GPS for free (use all the time; it's kind of slow to start up but works great), NFL network (I don't use) and Sprint TV (again don't use). This is bound to be a target for the other carriers and I'm sure will soon be outdone by them. But until then Verizon and AT&T can't compete with that price.

I honestly don't think AT&T is even trying to compete anymore; they just look at their customers and say "do you want the iphone or not", and the suckers pay up! haha!

I had to throw at least one jab in there!!

I really think this phone is bad ass and of course would like to have one, but I think it’s missing an important feature, a physical keyboard!!

Oh, as far as the 4G network having a cap that is lower than 3G. I don't know if that's true or not, if Killer says so than I have no reason not to believe him, but the cap is not the important part; it's what speeds you actually get on the device. I would think that with all the money being invested in the new 4G network you would see faster speeds, but I have no idea. I can't even get 4G coverage where I'm at (not yet anyway).

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I have always been a guy who digs a physical keyboard on phones (almost a requirement), but after playing around with Verizon's HTC Incredible, I've got no qualms. The response is smooth, and even if you misspell, you've got word suggestions that are a tap away (instead of backspacing). As far as the 4G...that's where things get a little hazy as far as info is concerned. 4G in most areas won't be out until about the end of summer, so most people probably don't have it yet.

I believe KillerBug is using anecdotal evidence to paint his picture of what's going on with the technologies (if you don't live in Tampa, your experience can and probably will be much different. Also I think Killerbug is mixing theoretical peak data rates with actual average user output between 3G and 4G. The highest average 3G download rate is AT&T with 1.4mb/sec. 4G averages between 3-5mb/sec. 3G peak is higher than 4G, but the peak is around 10mb/sec. Consumers are unlikely to reach that though.

To sum it all up, if you're lucky enough to be in a 4G area, you can expect 2-3 times faster AVERAGE download speeds on average than even the most OPTIMISTIC averages.

heres the thing though, sprint useres can roam on verison, and as long as half od your data comes from sprint and not verison, sprint dont say anything.

http://www.clear.com/shop/services/mobile?intcmp=lnav_mbl - Clearwire site stating that their limit is 6/1...that is the max theoretical limit; not the average..


From http://www.clear.com/support/about/?intcmp=index_d_bot_au :
"The company markets its service through its own brand called CLEAR™ as well as through its wholesale relationships with Sprint, Comcast and Time Warner Cable"

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3g :
"Today's 3G systems can in practice offer up to 14.0 Mbit/s on the downlink and 5.8 Mbit/s on the uplink"

So, sprint could be giving you more than double the speed of ClearWire WiMax if they chose too, using 3G...they instead farm this out to ClearWire, who sell something that is only technically 4G

An RC car is technically a car, but you are not going to drive to work in it, ClearWire WiMax is technically 4G, but you are not going to watch HD video on it.

[edit]
More Stuff:

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4g :
"An IMT advanced cellular system must have target peak data rates of up to approximately 100 Mbit/s for high mobility such as mobile access and up to approximately 1 Gbit/s for low mobility such as nomadic/local wireless access, according to the ITU requirements. Scalable bandwidths up to at least 40 MHz should be provided."

"The Mobile WiMAX (IEEE 802.16e-2005) mobile wireless broadband access (MWBA) standard is sometimes branded 4G, and offers peak data rates of 128 Mbit/s downlink and 56 Mbit/s uplink over 20 MHz wide channels. The IEEE 802.16m evolution of 802.16e is under development, with the objective to fulfill the IMT-Advanced criteria of 1 Gbit/s for stationary reception and 100 Mbit/s for mobile reception.

Sprint Nextel has announced that it will be using WiMAX, branded as a "4G" network."

-So sprint's "4G" technically isn't even 4G...real 4G is called "IMT", and "IMT" has speeds of 100mbps for mobile devices, and up to gigabit speeds for larger, stationary receivers. Not only is Sprint selling someone else's product, and they are even going so far as to lie and claim that it is 4G, when it is just WiMax...and not even good WiMax.

From what I have read, if it is not IMT, it is not 4G...and if it is not at least 100mbps under ideal conditions, then it is not IMT. Ideal conditions on ClearWire/Sprint WiMax are only 6mbps...so at best, they are making claims that they can only meet 6% of. At worst, they are making claims that they can only meet 0.6% of, and they are not using the format that they claim to.

Oh, and even at a paltry 2mbps, that 5GB cap would be used up in under six hours...so much for "Unlimited".

First of all here's actual 3G speeds from a wired survey...
Verizon came in first place with an average download speed of 1,940 Kbps, as reported by 856 participants. T-Mobile’s average rate was 1,793 Kbps with 1,189 reported T-Mobile users. Third was Sprint with 1,598 Kbps, based on data from 1,570 users. In dead last was AT&T with an average of 901 Kbps — but an overwhelmingly large user sample of 8,153 test takers.
(http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/07/3g-speed-test/#ixzz0oJ6cjzyC)
Secondly on SPRINT 4G reaches 3-6 Mbps sustained with up to 10 Mbps peak.
So speeds on 4G will be anywhere from 2 times as fast to 3.33 times as fast as their average speed is now.
Also as of right now, there is no 5GB/mo cap on 4G data only on 3G.

I know that current 3G speeds are not very good because the providers are holding them back in order to make more profit. My argument is that if they actually wanted to provide a better service, all they would have to do is to remove these limitations...and to make a WiMax network that operates at speeds that are well within the capabilities of 3G is practically false advertising, calling WiMax "4G", when even the provider does not call it that, is clearly false advertising. Heck calling something with a 1.6mbps limit "3G" should be considered false advertising too, as the ITU specifies that 3G should have speeds of at least 2.0mbps.

Here is a nice quote for you, from the Wiki page I posted earlier:
"Both 3GPP and 3GPP2 are currently working on extensions to 3G standard that are based on an all-IP network infrastructure and using advanced wireless technologies such as MIMO, these specifications already display features characteristic for IMT-Advanced (4G), the successor of 3G. However, falling short of the bandwidth requirements for 4G (which is 1 Gbit/s for stationary and 100 Mbit/s for mobile operation), these standards are classified as 3.9G or Pre-4G."

Those formats are much, much faster than clearwire...and they still can't call themselves 4G because they are too slow.

Originally posted by KillerBug:

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That is what I have seen so far...3G is limited to 14.0 down/5.8 up (tho even those speeds are not available yet AFAIK)

Now, clearwire is the company that provides 4G for sprint...and their own website says the speed limit is 6.0 down/ 1.0 up.

So, current 4G gives less than half the downstream and about 1/6 the upstream of 3G at full speed. 4G has a lot of theoretical speed, but the current speed limit is considerably slower than the limits of 3G. That is why it is pointless...it is like having a USB 3.0 flash drive that is slower than a fast USB 2.0 unit.

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Let me set the record straight. I dont know what it says on the clearwire website, but everybody knows that 4G is faster than 3G. I have a wireless card through sprint and I can get 3G and 4G and let me tell you its no comparision. It you do a speed test off the internet you will see how fast it is. Not only that when you are watching a YouTube video you can tell the difference 4G do not lag plus when I download songs off of limewire it is like 3 to 6 times faster no joke. The phone still has more than 4G it has a 8 MP Camera, what you have negative to say about that. It has 2 cameras. The screen is the biggest inthe market yet. It will have the driod operating system. 1000s of app you can download and much much more.

Originally posted by KillerBug:

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I know that current 3G speeds are not very good because the providers are holding them back in order to make more profit....

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Thanks much Killer for all the info... it is appreciated..

So it does seam that 3G does have the capability to exceed what Sprint is selling as 4G, however all providers are holding 3G back as well for whatever reason...

I've used a 3G phone and also a laptopconnect card in PA, NY, OH and Indiana and I have never tested above 2mbs... It is very disappointing to learn that the providers could speed up current technology but instead choose to sell us a new round of devices...

As for Spint calling wimax 4G, I am ok with that. They do state wimax in a number of their specs and I have always used 3G and 4G as more of a generic term for the 3rd or 4th generation of what the provider is providing. From what I understand there is actually going to be 3 different technologies sold as 4G. Sprints which is out now, T-Mobile's which is by the end of the year and Verizon's LTE stuff by next year sometime.
(I'm not sure what AT&T is doing, but I think i heard they where also doing a form of LTE as well)

However, because the providers are what they are... I don't think I ever have any hope of getting above 2mbs on 3G as the providers simply won't sell it... I have no choice but to go to 4G. And yes, it also sucks that they will be limited wimax-4g to 6mbs, but that is still better than what they are limiting 3G to....

For now 6mbs wimax-4g is better than my current 3g, and I am holding out hope that end of next year when all providers are on board with 4g, that Sprint may open the bandwidth up a little bit to help compete against the other carriers.

Oh, and as for the 5gb cap on 'unlimited', the extra $10 for what sprint calls "premium data plan" removes that cap and allows access to the 4G network... and if you buy an EVO you have to buy the premium data plan, so that wont be an issue.

thanks again for your insight...
-JamK

I am a major proponent of the government not regulating anything. I would rather the free market regulate itself. But I also understand that there is always a time for the government to step in and force companies to provide what they advertise or to stop monopolies. **That's the difference between a conservative and libertarian. I'm not saying this to start a political conversation (this is a tech site and I won't participate in political conversations on this site)!!**

I am merely stating that I wish the government would step in and make these "monopolistic" data providers (cell, cable, dsl, satellite, telecom companies and etc...) give us what they advertise. Not only that, they should also use some of the stimulus money to promote competition among the companies and provide incentives for the companies that further the technology (but then the politicians would choose their favorites and it would get all "coruptified" and yeah you know...nevermind, I take it back NO REGULATION).

If we got what was technically possible we would be getting ridiculous speeds and hopefully that will happen sooner than later.

I have had Sprint the longest compared to other providers in my area. Verizon, T-Mobile, and AT&T still are not in my area. In fact, AT&T and T-Mobile will not even attempt to sell you a phone if you live where I do. Here, the options are Cellcom, US Cellular or Sprint. By far Sprint has proven to be the best overall as far as service, reliability and cost. Beyond the fact that one of Sprints largest roaming contracts are with US Cellular, which means that I can get my Sprint coverage as well as the US Cellular coverage when Sprint isn't around. Most people cannot get any service in basements of buildings anywhere in Northeast WI. Sprint comes through. Even at the tech college, where all of my classes were in the basement I had clear, full coverage when nobody else did.

Just for the record, I am not saying Sprint 4G is slower than Sprint 3G (or any other Domestic 3G for that matter). I am just saying that it is slower than what 3G SHOULD be, and significantly slower than what 4G is defined as. It is a scam...but their 4G scam is faster than their 3G scam. They should call it 5G...that way the suckers think it is 1G better, and Sprint does not have to worry about lawsuits due to false advertising.

I just wish the feds would crack down on these companies. I pay for 3G, and I get the minimum (2mb) most of the time...but to think that AT&T users are getting less than 1mb is just sad. There should be truth in advertising; if you lie intentionally in a commercial, then you should be held liable. Instead, their lies get people to sign 2 year contracts that they can't get out of...even when the service provider breaches their own contracts, the customers are still locked in.

well its a 4G bandwidth they advertise, not speeds, no they arnt exactly lieing. and on engadgets review they said

"we were getting speeds as high as 7.5Mbps down and nearly 3Mbps up on WiMAX (granted, roughly 3.5Mbps down was more of the norm, but we saw some amazing peaks)."

http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/19/htc-evo-4g-review/

which tbh isnt bad, but IF more and more people are going to use 4G i assume that will go down.

one good thing for CDMA is that you can talka nd use 4g at the same time, unlike with 3g.

So why is it that when your throughput doesn't match a hypothetical limit people bitch about "The Man" holding them back? Quit bitching, these companies tell you what they give you, you have all the tools in the world to figure out or ask a question about anything you're not sure of. Sprint isn't saying, "Use our network and get 10MB/s 3G speeds!" They tell you their 4G network is up to 10x faster than their 3G and comparing their 3G on a bad day to 4G on a good day it's about right. If you don't like then don't sign up with the company.

Oh yeah, I thought your DSL comment was kind of innane so here's a quote from Wiki, since you like them so much.

Cable - "Downstream, the direction toward the user, bit rates can be as much as 400 megabits per second for business connections, and 100Mbit/s for residential service in some countries"

DSL - "The data throughput of consumer DSL services typically ranges from 384 KB/s to 20 MB/s in the direction to the customer(...)"

Just so you know, there's a lot of DSL technologies out there, some are damn fast, too. Point is you should stop talking about technology because you're just throwing out a bunch of bs.

As the wiki link provided above says, if you read it closely! 3g = the IMT2000 STANDARD. this standard includes both 3g and 4g tech. in the case of sprint: 3g = EV-DO and 4G = clearwire's wimax! ( see the box on the wiki page) following the EV-DO link (the current sprint 3g) download / upload =~ 3.1 Mbit/s. So, yes 4g is faster.