Sony responds to the Xbox 360 Elite

Oh! Microsoft just got Dille-slapped!

Both systems are great and I'm glad I have them.
Competition is driving MS to improve the 360 than good, Sux I have to go buy a new 360

I don't need the elite - I like my 360 just fine. I will purchase a stand alone hd player for my system - not one that is part of a system. Plus I would rather limit use of my xbox by using a different system to play HD movies. PS3 still has very few games and that is the disadvantage of the PS3 - the 360 is a huge community now especially on live.

Originally posted by muccione:

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Both systems are great and I'm glad I have them.
Competition is driving MS to improve the 360 than good, Sux I have to go buy a new 360

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Of course that would mean forking out another $479...

$479 for a black case, larger HDD and HDMI. Add $60 for Live and $200 for an HD-DVD drive, and MS is just begging people to buy PS3. I personally think its a bad move. And I'm already a 360 owner!

However, if the consumer has the money to blow, they could go either way. The 360 does have a larger library of games, etc. and the HD-DVD is an add-on, so at least they won't have to bite their fingernails off, worrying that their optical disc format will die off.

this is what happens when you dont make it right the first time.
the HD should have been interchangeable from the start...

HDMI goes with the revision of the chipset not bad tarty but not bad

the New CPU and hopfully a redo on the ehating setup will finish off this "upgrade".

its good all this will be in the 399 premiums by year end.
I think I will tag one for Xmas :X

MS is cool and all, i love there service and product to the death, id probably even sell mine and fork out 200 for another newer system, but 90% of xbox360 owners dont like this and not alot of people are going to want to fork out 700 dollars for both the new system and hd player, even if there new to the product. But now that i think about it, id probably just get a HDTV or a PS3 ither or. MS is gunna loose alot of money..

see the funny thing is that all them stupid xbox fanboys who where ragging on sony about the PS3 being so high in price are now gonna see there precious xbox be about the same price with all them add-ons...this just proves that everybody bitchin' about the damn price of game systems now need to shut the hell up cuz rather or not you wanna believe it HD is the future and until it becomes standard, you will have to pay the price for it....literally.

Originally posted by BigD51:

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see the funny thing is that all them stupid xbox fanboys who where ragging on sony about the PS3 being so high in price are now gonna see there precious xbox be about the same price with all them add-ons...this just proves that everybody bitchin' about the damn price of game systems now need to shut the hell up cuz rather or not you wanna believe it HD is the future and until it becomes standard, you will have to pay the price for it....literally.

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you do realize by the end of the year they go down to 399?

anyway price aside tis about time they fixed the damn thing ><

Sony failed to mention in their statement that all of these included items and features come at a hefty price and from my point of view, way too expensive to buy!

't forget the IPTV , which should be quiet big

see the funny thing is about fanboys in general (especially Sony fanboys for some reason) they make ill conceived statements like "if you buy this and that it cost as much!!!!one1!" I don't WANT blueray (or HD DVD) I don't WANT to buy a new system (and after I get the new harddrive for my current console it will STILL be cheaper and have MORE SPACE, GAMES, DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT, AND BETTER online play). microsoft is not forcing things upon you (like formats that will die or not do well -- betamax, minidisc, umd, --) like Sony does.. so it is cheaper. no matter how you look at it (using logic, mind you).
calling people fanboys is usually done by people that ARE fanboys.

I am a FANMAN (not a boy) of gaming. Have owned almost EVERY system that has ever come out. have several game systems by all 3 people still in the race (plus a few that aren't)... someday I will buy a ps3... when the price drops or there is something there worth the pricetag. so far there is not. not even close.
When you don't have such a closed mind you enjoy much more! (especially when it comes to gaming!)

... and you ARE right HD IS the future! and the games are still HD (and look just as good) through composite on my 360 as they do on the (borrowed) ps3 in my livingroom through HDMI. even my friend (who I'm sure you'll just say is 'stupid' and that you'd be able to) could not tell which system was on when he came over... and it's his system and he states how 'obvious' the differences are!

frostmode
hows your gen 1 360 holding up?
its nice to see some of them still working without a problem.

actually mine had the problems after the big update just like most. But unlike Sony support that actually LAUGHED at me when I called about a problem with the brand new ps2 I bought (launch day) (and again told me 'there was nothing they could do' with a second I had purchased) they replaced it for free. no problems/no questions/no delays.
I eventually had a ps2 for about 6 months that I had bought off a friend (5 months and 3 weeks longer than the first two NEW ones).

I am suprised my psp is still alive and kickin' (to bad sony has practacly forgot about it).
I also find it odd that the psone I have has never had a problem.

Anywho. My first gen 360 worked fine up until the update they never admitted caused the problem (but the support people sure did, which I thought was funny).

Originally posted by frostmode:

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actually mine had the problems after the big update just like most. But unlike Sony support that actually LAUGHED at me when I called about a problem with the brand new ps2 I bought (launch day) (and again told me 'there was nothing they could do' with a second I had purchased) they replaced it for free. no problems/no questions/no delays.
I eventually had a ps2 for about 6 months that I had bought off a friend (5 months and 3 weeks longer than the first two NEW ones).

I am suprised my psp is still alive and kickin' (to bad sony has practacly forgot about it).
I also find it odd that the psone I have has never had a problem.

Anywho. My first gen 360 worked fine up until the update they never admitted caused the problem (but the support people sure did, which I thought was funny).

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frimware helping the overly heat fragile systems commit suicide faster? 0-o
its a good thing I have put it off *L*

NOw all MS needs to do is throw in a built in wireless card and the unit will be all set. I may actually have to buy one this fall and between a 360 and a Wii I should be able to get the vast majority of good games (minus a few Sony exclusives) and skip the PS3 all together. Besides companies like Rockstar, EA, and Square Enix all rethinking their Sony partnerships a bit.

my never got hot and nothing seems to fragile to me.
all seemed like some bad code or some kind of 'mistake' in the update itself that Msoft didn't want to admit to.

I called up and said "about 4 days ago, my 360 froze and did the 3 lights thing" and went about explaining exactly what happened. NEVER mentioned the update (that happened to have been 4 days ago).

they said "uhhuh, and had you done the auto update?"
as soon as I said yes they told me a coffin er... box was on the way... but if it wasn't the update... why? lol

ETA: my opinion is it's always better to run the wires unless you HAVE to go wireless... I don't care if you have 802.11 lmnop it isn't as good as a good ol fashined wired connection.

although my original xbox is wireless in my sons room... but mostly so we can play here against each other and I don't feel like dragging a cable down the hallway.

i'm happy to have a system with no aacs and no hdcp and a trojan horse next gen hd player. maybe in 7 or so years when the companies agree on a format and stop squabbling like the moronic fanboys i will upgrade to hd but i sure as hell won't be buying into incompatibility hell. im happy with the performance of my wide-screen sdtv and dvd player tbh. we can already see the start of incompatible HDMI with the ps3 with hd sets that blink and have no picture at all via HDMI regardless how long you hold the power button down for, and older hd tv(over 1 year old and still being sold in shops today) that dont support 720 and the content is downscaled to 480 why purchase a lesser quality product and i'm sure the 360 HDMI will be just as bad but at least the 360 upscales!

720p PS3 games downscale on older HD sets



Restricted Digital Outputs, including HDCP and DTCP

Originally posted by eff above link:

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What they are: HDCP restricts connections to video displays through DVI (including HDMI) digital outputs and DTCP restricts sending over FireWire or USB connections. The broadcast flag, cable, satellite, and DVD restrictions only permit digital outputs with these sorts of restrictions.

Why they're bad: Restricted outputs will force you to throw our your home theater system and buy a hobbled one. You're likely to encounter arbitrary and unpredictable incompatibilities; many existing devices, including even some that say HDCP-compliant, won't work with these standards. You'll only be able use devices that Hollywood's approved and obey DRM that blocks your legitimate uses.

What EFF is doing ab

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frostmode
I dunno the 360 seems to have a very high fail rate based around heat dispensation.
but in any case good for you for only having minor issues with it *L*

wireless is a pain in the arse...they need simplify more I ahve ran acouple of simple wi fi networks and they can be pain ><

This may be a topic for another forum, but it has been mentioned a couple times about Blu-ray in the Sony and HD-DVD for the XBOX. What most people are missing is that everything is very rapidly moving into the digital age and it started with Music. How many people have completely stopped buying CDs and are getting their music via digital distribution. The day is very close where people will be getting their HD Movie and show content in the same way. IPTV is right around the corner and there are already a few movie download sites. So no matter what format becomes king, it will shortly become the king of an empty kingdom.

Three words for Sony:

DISC READ ERROR

'nuff said! :)

bobiroc
Maybe if boardband was everywhere for 40 a month or less its going tot take at least 2-3 generations for digital distro to be fully accepted,right now its still very much in its infinaticy,add the cost of net to it most non net or low net users would rather just go to a store and buy it.

Plus you have the media industry itself stifling tech advancements,IPTV is cute but as pointless at a 6GB HD movie download,what I am gettign at the future is not now,its still in tomorrow.

Originally posted by limelight:

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Three words for Sony:

DISC READ ERROR

'nuff said! :)

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I dunno MS is having as much as a bad time with heat as Sony did with DRE's,theyve managed to stay head and head in with the stupidity depot.

Zippy
Tomorrow yes, but not 2 or 3 generations. It has already begun to happen like I said with music. Also in the very near future people will have to buy down converters if they do not have an HD capable TV.

I was going to get the new 360 before I found out they don't have the HD-DVD built in. I don’t need the extra HDD space or HDMI so I will keep the one I got. Plus $500 is steep for this thing if you already bought the premium version.
You think just maybe that MS didn't build this version with the HD-DVD drive installed because they know Blue-Ray is (for the moment anyway) winning the format war?
I didn't say they won... I said they are winning the race so far. Just a thought.

Hey frostmode....
When did Sony force you to accept Blue Ray? Send me some pictures of the bruises from them twisting your arm or breaking your legs to make you support Blue Ray. Play regular DVD's on the damm thing if you don't like Blue Ray. If you want to play games in the future you’re going to have to except one or the other (or a different version of the same thing) sooner or later or you will be left behind.
You put down fanboys and your fanboyism for the 360 is so huge it's oozing out of my monitor. You said MS doesn't force you into anything. Wait 2 years or so when they tell you that they don't support the 360 anymore and the (insert new name here)is what you have to buy if you want to play the same games that are on the PS3.
You are a 360 FANBOY. Live with it. I like both but I prefer the PS3. Guess that makes me a PS3 FANBOY. I don’t have a problem with that.
Oh and by the way.....your PC..... are you using Vista yet? If not it won't be long before you are FORCED to use Vista. Micro$haft strikes again. Not that Sony isn’t greedy….They are it’s just on a different level.

djeazyg
well you see in order to not make large losses on each console sold MS would have to price the elite 360 at abotu 700-900$

Sony by building the PS3 around BR its forcing you to get it.

Currently BR has not proved itself for gaming and thus is a extra cost.

and before you cry "fanboy" MS has made just as many mistakes as sony has,the only mistake Nin did was over the graphics,if they put just 100$ more worth of video power in it,it would not be the laughing stock of "hardcore" gamdome..

Originally posted by bobiroc:

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Zippy
Tomorrow yes, but not 2 or 3 generations. It has already begun to happen like I said with music. Also in the very near future people will have to buy down converters if they do not have an HD capable TV.

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with the media mafia slowling and stalling advancements your not going to see FULL digital distro for at least 20 years and another 50-100 to fully replace over the contempary media formats.

FUll digital distro means 80%+ of all media be offered online(games/tv/movies/music) until CP/IP owners create a digital rights management system they are happy with things will not move forward easily or quickly.

um... if your intelligent enough to figure it out.. they are forcing blue-ray on you for the system! if you want the system you HAVE to get it! Hence forcing it! (sorry if you haven't understood that so far you probably never will. also, there system would be $100.00usd or more cheaper if they hadn't decided to 'force' it. and MANY more would have sold.

and yes I'm a 360 fanboy.. you are right... except for the fact I play every system. do not think Microsoft does everything right. oh, and the fact that I plan on buying a ps3 and that I have owned at least one of each of the Sony systems... too bad your too dense to figure that out.

my only question... what games are you playing on your ps3?
I'm not impressed by any that aren't already on my 360, so I'm just curious... since your NOT a fanboy and all (*sniff sniff* whats that smell?!? oh! it's BS)

ETA: I know how great you (in all your fanboyism) think the ps3 is, but in 4-5 years yes they will BOTH be replaced. if you think any differently you are just proving yourself an ignorant fool.

If you think the 360 or ps3 will be able to handle whatever the first company to start the NEXT set of consoles is capable of... you haven't been a gamer long enough to know.

Originally posted by ZIppyDSM:

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djeazyg
well you see in order to not make large losses on each console sold MS would have to price the elite 360 at abotu 700-900$

Sony by building the PS3 around BR its forcing you to get it.

Currently BR has not proved itself for gaming and thus is a extra cost.

and before you cry "fanboy" MS has made just as many mistakes as sony has,the only mistake Nin did was over the graphics,if they put just 100$ more worth of video power in it,it would not be the laughing stock of "hardcore" gamdome..

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Nice retort...
If you ask me the entire console gaming industry is way out of control on its pricing. Sony started it and it looks like MS is going to follow their lead.

OK I agree Sony gives no choice about the Blue Ray. But what’s the problem with that? 360 and wii are DVD/CD only. PS3 is DVD/CD or Blue Ray. If you get a PS3 you get Blue ray like it or not but that doesn't mean that you have to go out and get the Blue Ray Movies. They are not forcing you to accept Blue Ray.
As for the gaming aspects of the Blue Ray disk.... Hasn't made a difference yet but it is a lot more space for better graphics, more involved games and games that take more than an evening to finish. I don't see the problem here. Even if HD-DVD or something else wins the format war and the PS3 is the only piece of equipment that will play a Blue Ray disk it doesn't matter cause then PS3 games are the only thing that will be on a Blue Ray Disk. PS3 games aren't "supposed" to be used on anything but a PS3 anyway……..yea………

Also, I actually admitted that Sony is not perfect. They need to get their act together but it is getting better all the time. MS did the same things.
And last, you really can't compare the Nintendo wii in this discussion because the discussion is about MS creating a more powerful 360. Nintendo obviously had no intentions on making a powerful machine. They went down a totally different road and are kicking ass because of it. I tried the wii and it's not my thing but it is definitely innovative and I sure wouldn’t laugh at them. The only reason I said fanboy is because he was very persistent in his message the he was not a FANBOY when he clearly is. He obviously loves the 360. Not that I care, I just wanted to tell him he is.

Well I own both and I really don't like my ps3 now, maybe later when final fantasy comes out. I bought virtual fighter and took it back 3 days later cause I could not stand the load time.

Originally posted by frostmode:

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um... if your intelligent enough to figure it out.. they are forcing blue-ray on you for the system! if you want the system you HAVE to get it! Hence forcing it! (sorry if you haven't understood that so far you probably never will. also, there system would be $100.00usd or more cheaper if they hadn't decided to 'force' it. and MANY more would have sold.

and yes I'm a 360 fanboy.. you are right... except for the fact I play every system. do not think Microsoft does everything right. oh, and the fact that I plan on buying a ps3 and that I have owned at least one of each of the Sony systems... too bad your too dense to figure that out.

my only question... what games are you playing on your ps3?
I'm not impressed by any that aren't already on my 360, so I'm just curious... since your NOT a fanboy and all (*sniff sniff* whats that smell?!? oh! it's BS)

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First.... I admitted that I am fanboy for the PS3. Learn to read before you reply.

Second... If you buy the 360 you get nothing but a glorified DVD player that plays games. On the PS3 the Blue Ray is there if you want it. Also, The 20 gig PS3 offers everything that the new 360 does except the hard drive is smaller, for damm near the same price with the blue ray drive installed. Is the $20 difference in price really a problem for you?

Third..... The 360 has over a year worth of games on it already. Comparing the 2 for the games they offer is extremely one sided. Look how the 360 started out. First couple of months were ruff for the 360. And to answer your question……I’m playing God Of War 2 on my PS3 right now so I really have no use for the 360 or the PS3 right now.

Last.... How old are you? That’s something like a 5th or 6th grade post. I did not call you any names or attack you personally, I just pointed out your discrepancies with that message. You should learn to debate without the childish name calling.

djeazyg
Nice ^^

I really want to see the PS3 do well but so far its been unimpressive and early adopters are are getting waped same can be said for the 360 in some regaurds.

the WII is probably the most stable of the lot but it dose lack a bit of power.


I'd really like to see sony adopt a dual motion setup like the wii only based more around 2 controller halves than the mote&NC the WII has , 2 halves 2 analog stick/nubs about 6-12 buttons total(the sticks are buttons as well) a left/right switch really I think Sony could win on a huge scale doing that.
Because its based off a PS2 pad you would have no trouble useing it to play older games,and even if its missing 2 or 4 buttons the motion senceing can be programed in to replace them adding to the BWC exp.

childish name calling? heh funny I said nothing that isn't obviously true of you... (which ironically made you use childish name calling, but regardless).

I don't use game systems to play dvd's... that is what a dvd player is for... likewise if I wanted a blueray or HD DVD player (or whatever comes out next) I would buy one separate from whatever game system has it. I take care of my game systems (most of which are probably older than you) and don't run them down by using the drives for movies or shoving things other than games in their cartridge slots. saying 360 is a glorified dvd player is no different than saying the ps3 is no different than a glorified blueray player (which isn't something I want... but I know it's more than that).

you said you prefer the ps3 so you 'guess' that makes you a fanboy. to me that doesn't really sound like you think you are your just 'guessing' you are. to me a fanboy is someone that worships a system regardless it's downfalls. which they all have... and makes statements like "the ps2 is twice as powerful as the xbox" or "the xbox 360 is more powerfull than any gaming computer" --both of which I've heard and laughed at--). I don't see how someone that plays every single system ever available (well almost) can be a 'fanboy' of one... no logic there...

and I really am serious about wanting to know what games are on it that are system exclusive that are great. I haven't seen any that compare to the enjoyment of my 'launch' 360 games (because it wouldn't be fair to put it up against current, and I know that)... I was curious what games were of your taste (I realize people have different taste, I am not cutting down any other systems --like you-- I am not making remarks about people just because they disagree --like you--) so I could see where the 'worth' of that console lies for you.
I want both consoles to thrive because obviously gaming would suffer without competition (although I hate the fact that game companies aren't willing to take a chance on 'new' ideas). so I want people to continue buying both... all I did was state my problems with the ps3 (or Sony in general) and also stated some I've had with Microsoft (never had a Nintendo system fail on me *knocks on wood*).

I'll have to talk to my friend about borrowing his system again (and talk him into getting gow2) I've never played it (one of the few ps exclusives I haven't).

i would like to start by saying that i own all three the 360 ps3 and the wii.and i like the 360 the best.because i like great games and 360 has plenty of them i dont care too much about the tech stuff just really cool games and a kickass online service.right now the ps3 dont have the games to showcase the raw power it has.and the wii is under in the power department but is sill very fun to play with.all that stuff that the ps3 has in it means nothing without the games.after all hardware can't prove itself.

I play my 360 and wii almost everyday. just started playing my psp again. other than that I step back to the classics every now and again (mainly playing "chrono Trigger" when I do).

thats all recently other than the four days I had the ps3. resistance was ok. didn't like the driving one and it made it freeze on me twice even though it wasn't scratched... the roads looked real though.

Originally posted by ZIppyDSM:

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djeazyg
Nice ^^

I really want to see the PS3 do well but so far its been unimpressive and early adopters are are getting waped same can be said for the 360 in some regaurds.

the WII is probably the most stable of the lot but it dose lack a bit of power.


I'd really like to see sony adopt a dual motion setup like the wii only based more around 2 controller halves than the mote&NC the WII has , 2 halves 2 analog stick/nubs about 6-12 buttons total(the sticks are buttons as well) a left/right switch really I think Sony could win on a huge scale doing that.
Because its based off a PS2 pad you would have no trouble useing it to play older games,and even if its missing 2 or 4 buttons the motion senceing can be programed in to replace them adding to the BWC exp.

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It's gonna take a while before the PS3 gets to show what it really has to offer.
I read somewhere a while back (a month or so after the wii was released)that Sony patented a wii type controller. I don't remember where I read it and I've heard nothing about it since. I think it would be a good idea for both the PS3 and 360 to jump on this before it goes out of style. Also in their favor is the ability to choose whether you want to use Motion Censoring or just sit, relax and play the game. Your design idea is interesting. Could work out nice. I think the people at MS or Sony can come up with a better design than a stick with a couple of buttons and a wrist strap. Nintendo has a great thing going but everything can be done better.

Sony are quick enough to jump in and say that the PS3 is already HD ready with a HDMI output. I bought my PS3 on the 23rd like most UK gamers. I also bought a 360 on launch. I just like to ask Sony where are the HD Cables? Oh yeah we gota buy em. Microsoft gave me the HD Component leads when I bought it.

How good any console is means nothing if the software that you put in it is "just enough" to run,2ndly the software writers need at least two years just to get up to speed with the hardware then there's the possable new game engines that are no doubt in development,just look at past games to the later games on both the PS2 & xbox 1 there's a huge diff in game play,unfortunatley game developers and understandably so try to push games onto the market as quickly as poss,and when you see how many people work on the projects it must cost a fortune to make 1 game,i lok forward to the day of glitch free games,well dreams are free...lol..

Aight funny thing about what a lot of people keep throwing out is Sony is forcing you to get this forcing you to get that. First let me say this if a company does not bring change in the game nobody will. Second if all these games companies didn't give you a different choice in what you like to see in a gaming product we would not have all these arm chair gamer critics. None of yall would have nothing to say but gaming was boring if there was not steps forward in newer technology being added in gaming consoles. Third M$ is adding a third system to the charts to fix the BS version most of us already have that some of us had to replaced more then once. Now finish this off yes Sony hits you off with stuff that most people may not find a need for because not everybody can afford to upgrade their TV to a HD-TV or go out and spend $600 on the 60 PS3 which is totally understandable and that is your choice to buy or not to buy. Personally i would rather get all the extra hardware up front then have to completely buy a better version of a system that suppose to be the BETTER version later this summer (360 Elite) to be exact. As i said in other post M$ is taking more money from you in the long run especially looking at everything that is offered in the PS3. The put these products out later to see how people would react to the PS3 and a lot of people are willing to spend that $200+ on that HD-DVD external drive and plenty of other things that I dont have time to sit and name each one. Simply if there was not more then one choice ya'll would be complaining about that like you complaining about the difference between the 2 systems.

[quote=frostmode]childish name calling? heh funny I said nothing that isn't obviously true of you... (which ironically made you use childish name calling, but regardless).

quote]It is funny how I said "childish name calling" and sort of did the same thing. Sorry.
Just for the record, I said I can be called a fanboy and it will not bother me. Your post seemed to me to say that you didn’t want to be called a fanboy. Also, I didn’t put down any system. The only bad thing I really said (before now) about the 360 is that the HD-DVD should be included for the $479 price tag.
You seem to keep insinuating that I am too young or haven’t been a gamer long enough to know what I am talking about. I was born in March of 1974, I'm 33 years old, Married with 2 boys. I've been around for the gaming revolution and unless you have played something older than an Atari 2600 , we’re on even ground. This includes the thousands I’ve spent over the years in the arcades. All kinds of games and playing in Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat competitions at local malls and reck centers.

In an earlier post you stated that both of these systems will be gone in 4 years. This might be true. But… look at the track record,
PS1 Released in 1995
5 years later…..
PS2 Released in 2000
7 years later…..
PS3 Released in 2007
Next
Xbox Released in 2001
4 years later…..
Xbox 360 (both versions) Released in 2005
2 years later……
Updated Xbox 360 Released in 2007. I understand that this is not a new system but I don’t see Sony or Nintendo putting out updated consoles and charging more than you paid for the one you already have.

The games I think are worth playing for the PS3 as of now are Ressistance and Motostorm. Waiting patiently for Heavenly Sword.
The kinds of games I like are anything but RPG’s and Grand Theft Auto and all the clones of that series. The 360 has a lot of clones of GTA and now they will have the new GTA. My opinion is enough is enough. I just don’t get the appeal of the GTA type games. RPG’s I can understand, it’s just not my thing.

GOW2 looks incredible. Game play is pretty much the same as GOW with stuff added. I would compare visually any PS3 game or 360 game to date with GOW2. Maybe Gears of War but that is the only game of that type I think can compete with GOW2.

Ok let me throw this out 360 prices were $350-$399 for the core version which is completely bland and isnt really worth buying unless you want to mod. The premium $430-$480 which gives you the wireless controller and etc. PS3 their standard version $500 - $540 depending were you find it and who your buying from. PS3's premium version $600-$640 again depending on where you find it may be a little more. Now M$ is gonna hit you again with a better version that should have been the one we all paid for but again another $480 + depending what they decide to sale it at when it gets out. Now my point a lot of loyal 360 people will spend that extra $480+ because it has all the stuff you wanted in it the first time you got thus if you got the Premium the first time you would have paid and this is just added off pure guesstimating $960+ for the premium and $800+ for the core if you had that first. Now you already surpassed PS3 with your cost and thats not to count what other stuff you bought along the way to make your 360 better. I got both personally i like my PS3 better is quiet in comparison to my 360, graphics are slightly better at this point in terms of brightness and details games are quiet there yet but its getting better. My 360 sounds like i can take and mow my yard wit it but it works and it serves its purpose even though i had to replace it twice since i bought it. I dont really care what people want to buy in game systems nobody in here will really agree with the next person because we all got our personal choice of what we want so really this is all a waste of text.

the only reason I made comments about age or lack of gaming experience is because I could superimpose threads I've read with 'kids' that say the exact same thing as your post and it just seems close minded and one sided to me (but it seems mine sound the same to you).
I'm a young lad (at a mere 26) born in the year of the Delorean, am also married, with a boy and 3 girls (and 1 on the way... don't know which yet). Atari 'computers' (if you can call them that) were my only gaming for quite a while (with billions upon billions of seemingly 'pirated' disks. then about a year after it came out I got a NES and have stayed 'caught up' ever since (and went back a few times for things like Neo/Geo and Atari Jaguar). unfortunately, my only time in arcades was on out of town trips and for the entire year they could keep an arcade open in this town.
About the launch dates for game systems. I truly didn't know ,well didn't think about, them being that far apart for the Playstation brand. In my opinion alot of that comes down to the 'brand loyalty' in the east and to a lesser extent here in the US. having practically no competition in Japan can make a huge difference for a console. With that in mind. if Microsoft or some company new to gaming (or Sega as a not so huge suprise.... I think it's been there plan all along!..jk.. maybe..) comes out with a system in 3-5 years I don't think they will just be 'up to the par' of the ps3... I think they will blow it to.... well you know. but it probably will stick around for a few more years like the ps2.. just be inferior in graphics for that time like the ps2 was to the Xbox.... so I really don't know... just my opinion.. but I see where your coming from on that point.
I play just about anything other than sports games (unless Wii sports counts).

I will have to see if I can borrow motorstorm and god of war 2 (never played the first GOW either). but I'm sure (mostly) that it won't be making me run out to get one sooner than I'm planning to (which should be around the time the games start coming out smoother for it).

Originally posted by djeazyg:

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OK I agree Sony gives no choice about the Blue Ray. But what’s the problem with that?

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the problem with Blu-ray is the extra DRM inbuilt that HD-DVD does not, that gives consumers even less control of their media! bd+ and spdc can shut down a player or a complete line of players if they wish it + if you want to watch any current media like a new rental Blu-ray you are forced to update your security or your Blu-ray player will NOT play the disc. why does anyone need a hollywood poking their noses into your hardware and you having to connect your media player up to the net just so it can phone home and download new security or you are left with an expensive book end!

Originally posted by wiki:

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Digital Rights Management

Blu-ray Disc has an experimental digital rights management (DRM) feature called BD+ which allows for dynamically changing keys for the cryptographic protections involved. Should the keys currently in use be "cracked" or leaked, manufacturers can update them and build them into all subsequent discs, preventing a single key discovery from permanently breaking the entire scheme. Blu-ray Disc also mandates a Mandatory Managed Copy system, which allows users to copy content a limited number of times, but requiring registration with the content provider to acquire the keys needed; this feature was originally requested by HP.[16]

The lack of a dynamic encryption model is what made standard DVD's Content Scramble System a disaster from the industry's perspective: once CSS was cracked, all standard DVDs from then on were open to unauthorized decryption. However this controversial technology, together with Self-Protecting Digital Content

(SPDC), can allow players judged "bad" to be effectively disabled,[17] preventing their use by their purchaser or subsequent owners.

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The DVD War Against Consumers

Haven't played with BD yet looks like we will be mod'n the firmware to get around the silly protection scheme, more fun to come....

I've thought about buying a PS3 just because you get the BD player which is STILL cheaper then buying a SD unit, it's a no brainier if you ask me since you also get a free gaming console buggy or not. Until SD's become cheap enough to have in every room why wouldn't you use the PS3 for your BD player it would be stupid to go buy a SD if you have a PS3 already.

MS did do well with having modular addons even though you'll find some to complain about that. The bottom line is no matter what you do someone will disagree with it or won't like it. MS has put out two pretty good systems in the time it took Sony to get one out which doesn't bold well for Sony. A year ago most people were saying Nintendo wasn't even going to be a contender and look at them they can't keep their consoles on the shelf long enough for everyone to get one. It's no wonder the software MFG's are running from the PS3 when Wii and 360 are the strongest contenders.

"We think every PlayStation 3 owner should have an 'elite' experience, which is why we include an internal hard drive and HDMI output in every PS3 we sell"

which is why you couldn't kick anyone a $15 HD cable right? Sony just can't seem to understand not everyone wants to spend $500-$600 on a console. Atleast Xbox 360 gives you a choice of how much you wanna spend and even at the most expensive choice isnt $500(and still more then doubles the size of there hard drive). Sony made a bunch of horriable choices and annoucements like this just makes them squirm in there little chairs. I love it!

Quote:

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Originally posted by djeazyg:

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OK I agree Sony gives no choice about the Blue Ray. But what’s the problem with that?

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the problem with Blu-ray is the extra DRM inbuilt that HD-DVD does not, that gives consumers even less control of their media! bd+ and spdc can shut down a player or a complete line of players if they wish it + if you want to watch any current media like a new rental Blu-ray you are forced to update your security or your Blu-ray player will NOT play the disc. why does anyone need a hollywood poking their noses into your hardware and you having to connect your media player up to the net just so it can phone home and download new security or you are left with an expensive book end!

[quote=wiki]Digital Rights Management

Blu-ray Disc has an experimental digital rights management (DRM) feature called BD+ which allows for dynamically changing keys for the cryptographic protections involved. Should the keys currently in use be "cracked" or leaked, manufacturers can update them and build them into all subsequent discs, preventing a single key discovery from permanently breaking the entire scheme. Blu-ray Disc also mandates a Mandatory Managed Copy system, which allows users to copy content a limited number of times, but requiring registration with the content provider to acquire the keys needed; this feature was originally requested by HP.[16]

The lack of a dynamic encryption model is what made standard DVD's Content Scramble System a disaster from the industry's perspective: once CSS was cracked, all standard DVDs from then on were open to unauthorized decryption. However this controversial technology, together with Self-Protecting Digital Content

(SPDC), can allow players judged "bad" to be effectively disabled,[17] preventing their use by their purchaser or subsequent owners.

---

The DVD War Against Consumers[/quote]
I said nothing about Hollywood or movies for that matter. If you read the whole message you will see that I said...
”If you get a PS3 you get Blue ray like it or not but that doesn't mean that you have to go out and get the Blue Ray Movies. They are not forcing you to accept Blue Ray.
As for the gaming aspects of the Blue Ray disk.... Hasn't made a difference yet but it is a lot more space for better graphics, more involved games and games that take more than an evening to finish. I don't see the problem here. Even if HD-DVD or something else wins the format war and the PS3 is the only piece of equipment that will play a Blue Ray disk it doesn't matter cause then PS3 games are the only thing that will be on a Blue Ray Disk. PS3 games aren't "supposed" to be used on anything but a PS3 anyway……..yea………"
Please read the entire post and not just the parts you want to see.

The PS3 and 360 are supposed to be about the games. That’s where the name "Game Console" comes from. In the long run I think Blue Ray will be good for games. I don't care about movies. The fact that it can play movies is nothing more than an unnecessary bonus. I want more room for games to be all they can be. Hollywood people can jump off the planet for all I care.

Your point is mute anyway because DRM is going to do nothing more than make the hackers work harder. HD-DVD will do the same thing sooner or later. Blue Ray is the front runner, for now, and that is the only reason Hollywood cares at the moment.

Originally posted by djeazyg:

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I said nothing about Hollywood or movies for that matter. If you read the whole message you will see that I said...
[i]”If you get a PS3 you get Blue ray like it or not but that doesn't mean that you have to go out and get the Blue Ray Movies. They are not forcing you to accept Blue Ray.

Your point is mute anyway because DRM is going to do nothing more than make the hackers work harder. HD-DVD will do the same thing sooner or later. Blue Ray is the front runner, for now, and that is the only reason Hollywood cares at the moment.

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its not about movies ffs its about HDMI & it is already causing issues for ps3 gamers just take a glance through the ps3 forums, the problem is hdcp and the incompatibility with hd sets, if you have a set that does not conform to the new standards of HDMI you set will either downscale or you will get no picture or sound or both. as for next gen and Blu-ray being a benefit is yet to bee seen but the industry is already complaining about the slow 2x 8mbps data extraction rate Blu-ray drive when you compare that to a 12xdvd that has 16xmbps data read speed.

Originally posted by wiki:

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Todd Howard, the executive producer of Bethesda Softworks, in an interview with Electronic Gaming Monthly magazine criticised the Blu-ray Disc drive’s read speed for being too slow: “Drive speed matters more to me than capacity, and Blu-ray is slower.”

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as for HD-DVD it has aacs which Blu-ray has and that is the standard copy protection with hd sony have gone to great legnths to implement more DRM themselves. bd+ is Blu-ray only! if you would have read the link you would have understood that yourself. but you can read that info from the official pages not just someone's review!


The DVD War Against Consumers

Originally posted by above link from business week:

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The AACS (Advanced Access Content System) standard supported by both the Sony and Microsoft camps addresses this problem. The standard calls for scaling down HD content to a low resolution if the player isn't hooked up to an HDCP-compliant connection. HDCP (High Bandwidth Digital Content Protection) is a DRM system invented by Intel (INTC) that attempts to control video and audio as it flows out of a player and onto a display. In other words, if the player is connected to a monitor without the right cables, the quality of the image will be deliberately degraded.

Blu-ray, however, goes beyond the AACS, incorporating two other protection mechanisms: The ROM Mark is a cryptographic element overlaid on a "legitimate" disk. If the player doesn't detect the mark, then it won't play the disc. This will supposedly deal with video-camera-in-the-theatre copies.

STRANGLEHOLD ON CONTENT. Even more extreme is a scheme called BD+ that deals with the problem of what to do when someone cracks the encryption scheme. The players can automatically download new crypto if the old one is broken. But there's an ominous feature buried in this so-called protection mechanism: If a particular brand of player is cryptographically "compromised," the studio can remotely disable all of the affected players. In other words, if some hacker halfway across the globe cracks Sony's software, Sony can shut down my DVD player across the Net.

The Blu-ray's DRM scheme is simply anti-consumer. The standard reflects what the studios really want, which is no copying of their material at all, for any reason. They're clearly willing to take active and unpleasant measures to enforce this. Last year's Sony/BMG rootkit fiasco comes to mind (see BW Online, 11/29/05, "Sony BMG's Costly Silence"). The possibility that they would disable thousands of DVD players, not because they're hacked but just because they might be vulnerable, would have been unthinkable a few years ago; it's clearly an option today.

What do consumers really want? We want high-quality video and sound, of course. These days we also want interoperability. When we buy content, we expect to play it on every gadget that we own. The newest video servers require content to be copied to the hard drives, so that they can stream video throughout the house. Soon, we'll also want to take the movies that we paid for with us on small multimedia players like video iPods.

OTHER ANSWERS. I support the rights of the studios to protect their content right up until it stops me from doing something reasonable that I want to do. Blu-ray crosses this line.

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all the issues are there because there is a Blu-ray drive on the machine, because of that you get loads of DRM whether you want the drive for films or not. it is in built into the hardware and when you are on-line its calling home!

Originally posted by cold71:

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"We think every PlayStation 3 owner should have an 'elite' experience, which is why we include an internal hard drive and HDMI output in every PS3 we sell"

which is why you couldn't kick anyone a $15 HD cable right? Sony just can't seem to understand not everyone wants to spend $500-$600 on a console. Atleast Xbox 360 gives you a choice of how much you wanna spend and even at the most expensive choice isnt $500(and still more then doubles the size of there hard drive). Sony made a bunch of horriable choices and annoucements like this just makes them squirm in there little chairs. I love it!

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Your 100% right about the HDMI cable. I was upset about that when I got my PS3. For $600 it should have come with a HDMI and a component cable as well. Not just an AV cable.
But....How much do you think the next Xbox will cost? I already paid $400 for my 360 and Now MS is charging almost $500 for nothing more than a black 360 with a bigger hard drive and an HDMI cable. What would be too much for the Xbox 720 or whatever they call it? Right now the 20 gig PS3 offers everything that the new 360 does except no HDMI cable the hard drive is smaller. It's only a $20 difference. Everybody wants to cry about the PS3 being too expensive.
Look where Microsoft is going to be in about 2 years or so. At launch, the new Xbox will be no better than the PS3 and cost $800. You watch.....

Quote:

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its not about movies ffs its about HDMI & it is already causing issues for ps3 gamers just take a glance through the ps3 forums, the problem is hdcp and the incompatibility with hd sets, if you have a set that does not conform to the new standards of HDMI you set will either downscale or you will get no picture or sound or both. as for next gen and Blu-ray being a benefit is yet to bee seen but the industry is already complaining about the slow 2x 8mbps data extraction rate Blu-ray drive when you compare that to a 12xdvd that has 16xmbps data read speed.

[quote=wiki]Todd Howard, the executive producer of Bethesda Softworks, in an interview with Electronic Gaming Monthly magazine criticised the Blu-ray Disc drive’s read speed for being too slow: “Drive speed matters more to me than capacity, and Blu-ray is slower.”

---

I didn't know about the slower speeds. That can be a problem. Seems like more of an opinion but I get your point. Makes sense.

Edit: After thinking about it, maybe this explains why it seems to take a long time for PS3 games to load. This was annoying to me but I blew it off as just being a new console thing.

Quote:

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as for HD-DVD it has aacs which Blu-ray has and that is the standard copy protection with hd sony have gone to great legnths to implement more DRM themselves. bd+ is Blu-ray only! if you would have read the link you would have understood that yourself. but you can read that info from the official pages not just someone's review!

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I didn't say you were wrong,,,,Your right but remember, Sony distributes movies and has more than a slight interest in protecting the content stored on a Blue-Ray or any other disk for that matter and the movie companies love it. If HD-DVD wins or another format comes along and puts Blue-Ray to shame, the movie companies will only dump resources into the new format to make it more secure. This is inevitable. Same will happen with music sooner or later. Just like Windows Vista. Remember they said you would not be able the pirate this operating system......Vista is cracked now but it is a shaky crack at best. Keeps getting harder and harder and no matter what media we agree on it will only get worse.

All i am going to say about the last comment is i rather have to go by a $15 HDMI cord then completely have to buy a new system which most of the people that got their 360 first ended up having to do when xbox only offered a 3 month warranty. Also when that bigger HD for the 360 comes out its gonna be like $180 for a 120gb drive whos to spend that kind of money on something that is not worth that much. 120GB drives run from like $40-$60 now thats more then i know im willing to spend. Thats not to count if you choose to buy the Elite version and trade your old one in. You will lose about $300 because you will only get $150-$200 if that for your old 360 when you trade so your gonna end up spending damn near a $1000 if you add the HD-DVD drive to the picture when you getting all of that in one system. So I would not complain about $15 dollars when your losing more money on 360 in the long run.

You get 1080p with the Elite not "i" if you use it with the HD player you can watch true resolution HD unless of course your TV doesn't support Progressive scan. Granted games are not produced in what they call FULL HD some day they will so it's still a plus.

I don't know you but HDMI,Blue Ray and HD-DVD are technologies that born right now ,are technologies very xpensives so it takes years to arrive to many homes.When the first plasmas arrive people buy those devices for thousands of dollars and now they are probably obsolets cuz technology improvements., now they offers plasmas and LCDs for less prices.I think that the XB360 Elite were launched from the beggining with this new features with the same price as the premium package.
M$ will adopt the winner between Blue Ray and HD-DVD for the next gen console.

BR is a bit slower in speed this is fact fanboys dont like to talk about,but HD caching will catch and disc data tricks will get better and you wont see as many issues with games loading.

there are plenty of small nuances to the 360 and PS3 the PS3 dose HDMI/High def better because tis built around it the 360 is grandfathered in since its based more around normal definition but it makes up for it with a mature library polished online and faster loading times on "normal" games (despite what they say Oblivion is a PC game and any console its put on it going to have a time)
the only down side to the 360 is the crappy fail rate


the PS3 is a cumbersome for its all new but offers better polished hardware with rough edges a potential for the merging of PC like (up to date graphics/free online) with a console gaming and you get a nice High def movie player if you are willing to pay 23+ a BR video.
the only down side the price is a bit steep and it lacks games.


The 360 is the better game machine currently if it were not for MSs lack of balls in dealing with the bad launch hardware thats still plaguing it today I would back the 360 as the better next gen system but MS put so many lil holes in it tis like a SIV,the PS3 has 2 or 3 large holes neither float well.

the WII is a hover boat its innovative and fun and sinks just as well as the others when you turn the fans off :X

I agree with you.BR-disc game will be xpensive too and not everybody is going to pay for a game until they heard or read the reviews.probably they will rent first.

Originally posted by voyager:

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I agree with you.BR-disc game will be xpensive too and not everybody is going to pay for a game until they heard or read the reviews.probably they will rent first.

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its on the devs to get BR games going,Pubs will balance the cost makeign all new games 50-70$ in order to keep BR titles from being 70-90$.

BR has potential but so far its not worth the price,unless you have money to burn.

Originally posted by voyager:

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I agree with you.BR-disc game will be xpensive too and not everybody is going to pay for a game until they heard or read the reviews.probably they will rent first.

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Not to mention that Sony has failed at almost every attempt (if not all attempts) at creating a new format for anything. IE: Mini disk, beta, and I don't remember them all.
What we need is that new German DVD format that is playable in both Blue-Ray and HD-DVD players to grab hold and sail. I don't know if it has a name yet but it is out there.
I'm all for Sony but their track record for new formats is not good at all.

djeazyg
the main reason UDM fails was because of price,if sony really wanted it to be a true format they would have made 80$ 4inch or so LCD players and sold the UDM movies FREE with new DVD movies as well as UDM stand alone at a reasonable price 10-15$.
Sony can not reinvent all they can do is make something and hope people will eat it up.

BR has more backing from the indutry than anything sony has ever been a part of,also Mini disk is heavily used my DJs and other profisnail types,BR dose have more potential than HDVD,all in all tis not bad but its going to still be a few years before a new format is decided on it would be funny if people stick with DVD that would show the evil corporations :P

I will try to be as unbiased as possible, most of you here seem to be leaning toward saying bad things about the PS3 more than anything else, I will try to be unbiased towards both systems.

First of all, I was annoyed as well when my PS3 didn't come with an HDMI cable but you guys are making way too much out of it. Sure the xbox included the component cables but they didn't include an HDMI option at all and also, if you want WIFI you need to purchase the most expensive WIFI adaptor ever made in the history of mankind when the PS3 already has wifi included. So I will take that against having an HDMI cable included any day.

Sure, the ps3 doesn't give the user a lot of options when buying but believe me, this is the way consoles were meant to be, we are not supposed to have any options, this isn't the PC market, core versions, eleet versions, whatever.. this is stupid, it only makes someone say "oh god I might need that hard drive after all" after a few years. with all the included hardware the ps3 has you know for a fact that machine will stay like that without any change for at least 5 to 7 years.

With the xbox, 2 years have passed and we already have an "eleet" version which has HDMI and a bigger hard drive... woa.. we didnt see that coming did we?

Let me guess, in 2 more years they will release one with HD-DVD included? and the ps3 will be just the way it was when it came out.

So all this "Microsoft gives us options" speech is crap, it's way better to spend 600 up front.

In my case, my 360 was actualy more expensive than my Ps3.

When I got my ps3 I got the console, extra controlers and a dvd remote. thats it.

with my xbox, I boughgt the console, which lets say was a little under 400 bucks but I also got the HD-DVD adaptor, which is 200 bucks more. not just that but I got extra controlers, for which I had to buy rechargable bateries (the ps3 has those included) and to top all that off, I needed it to conect to my WIFI so I had to buy the wifi adapter which is not cheap at all. I ended spending much more on my xbox 360 than I spent on my ps3 simplmy because microsoft couldn't release all their hardware on a nicely wraped up package.

Now If the experience was at least better than the PS3 I wouldnt complain so much but in reality, I spent more and in the end of the day I still have a console with no HDMI and with less than 10gb of hard drive. and just the added "fun fact" that it wont play HD-DVD games, just movies, unlike blu ray which will play games on 50gb discs.

... I know I said I was gona be unbiased right? well I am unbiased because after all the ps3 is a gaming console before anything and ...... THE GAMES SUCK!!! seriously wtf? the ps3's biggest selling game is a god damned shooter.... not just that but their online gaming network sucks. their download games section sucks and it just seems like they forgot to do all that and implemented it 1 week before release. it's just choppy as hell.

Xbox doesnt stay that far back tho. since launch they have released only a handfull of really good games.

This is how the ps2 OWNED the first xbox... it was launched one year before the xbox and for that same reason it released tons of games. by the time the xbox was out consumers had 2 options. a new big ugly black box with 5 games or sony's already huge gaming library.

I think the only console that actualy knew what it was doing was the wii and i think thats why it is the best right now

kuhne
just so ya know "industry standard" is not going to make allot of "50GB" games,and even then thos exclusive titles can be broken up with no loss onto 5 DVD9s,the reason I claim "industry standard" is because almost everyone is making stuff for everything one else be it any console or PC so they are not going to go out of their way to fully utilize the 50 GB more like they will merely dump data onto the disc and hope they can use tricks to help load times,I hope Sony and Bethsada are working together to get oblivion working fully on the PS3 thats going to be its first real "load test".

I am more interested in the nuances and the games when you get down to it theres little diffrance in the 360 and PS3 and when you find the diffrances its mostly the PS3 having more coherent Hdef abilities.

I would like to see sony focus more on BWC for now screw the price they have allot of little things that need to be done and price aint it.

I would like to see MS apologize for its hardware nightmare and and do some recalls so that by summer of next year all the new hardware is new and 50% of the old is new as well.

I know most people developers dont event want to think about making games that big at the moment but a lot of the space in games now a days isnt content but actualy high def content. in other words, the bigger the storage device the more detailed graphics you can achieve. obviously right now and in a few years this doesnt matter but in a few years bigger discs will be needed, either that or make use of the consoles hard drive which in my point of view would be troublesome, too much like PC gaming at that point. consoles are meant to be strictly 100% software based, thats why its the easiest hassle free way to play games. Of course I love the idea of having a HD in my console, for updates and new maps and things like that but I want all of my game or as much as possible to be in one disc, hassle free and it seems like sony as allways is thinking ahead.. it doesnt allways pan out the way they think but they usualy have the superior hardware even if in the end it doesnt become the industry standard.

as for the xbox hardware issue, I agree with you, MS needs to do a lot about their hardware and this new xbox coming out is an insult to all those people who bought the original xbox who could have goten HDMI at that point, I rememember an interview with some big shot microsoft guy in the xbox team who flat out said, theres no HDMI in the xbox because we feel theres no need for HDMI in games right now.

I doubt his opinion changed in less than a year... Microsoft just realised that having the ps3 with HDMI and the xbox without it kinda sucked for them so they add HDMI and they add a bigger hard drive which is atractive but really useless as I just dont use the harddrive in my xbox at all.. to listen to music I either stream it from my PC or conect my ipod to the usb port in the xbox and the xbox cannot store video unless its downloaded from the xbox marketplace so all video I watch on my xbox is streamed from my pc as a media center extender.... in other words, a bigger drive in the xbox is cool but kinda useless. unless you are a hardcore xboxlivve marketplace downloaded (videos, demos, movies etc..) and dont delete anything.
Movies would take more space than anything but they are rentals so they have to be downloaded.

The only good thing I would see about a new xbox is if they added HD DVD to it directly but if they did that the price would skyrocket well over the price of the playstation 3 (which is very cheap for what it actualy is) and people would be confused as a big selling point of the xbox is the fact that it is cheaper than the ps3.

What you get with the xbox is actualy a cheaper product than with the ps3, like buying a cheaper pc.

Where microsoft has to get their crap together is with the games because sony doesnt have to worry about that, sony will eventualy drop tons and tons of games, its what they do, doesnt matter if the games suck, doesnt matter if its a spice girls game, as long as there are games. Quantity over quality is what made the ps1 one if not the best console ever made. (they had quality too of course but they basicaly had every game out there)

Microsoft seems to be very concerned to make people believe that the xbox is a superior device than the ps3 in every aspect.

Whatever the ps3 has that the xbox 360 doesnt, microsoft says is useless.. like HDMI... then before you know it microsoft sneaks in a xbox with HDMI... whats next, an xbox with integrated wifi? then in a few years an xbox with a better processor and then better ram and then HD-DVD and ... why not just change the name to ps3..

Microsoft is not used to be the underdog when it comes to things they can do with money. for example, they may be losing to google as far as a websearch engine goes but its not becuase they arent spending enough money on it, MSN live has as much features as google does maybe even more, its just people like google more.

with the console situation they are actualy for the first time the underdogs in every aspect of the fight, their hardware is even inferior to sony's and they cant deal with that it seems. instead of doing what sony has allways done in the console market. beat the competition with inferior hardware. Just like the ps1 owned the saturn and the N64 and just like the ps2 owned the xbox 360.

You didnt see Sony try to release new versions of their PS2 to make it look as powerfull as the xbox.. they never claimed it was as powerfull as the xbox. in fact, the ps2 graphics kinda sucked, yet it owned the xbox completly simply because of the games.

I dont know why microsoft doesnt learn from this and just starts mass releasing games. even if they are bad, it doesnt matter. they sell.

Just like the ps3 released a gundam game when it came out, its a horrible game yet it was one of the best sellers. it seems microsoft got famehappy with Halo and now only wants to release games that make people go insane, kind of like blizzard.

Which is why I predict sony will take over again, by massproducing all sorts of crap

kuhne
even in 5 years games will be on DVD9 because the other formats are not industry or consumer standards because of that theres not going to be allot of 50GB games.

AS I said before space will always be looked at in 8GB sections at least in the next 3-6 years the next gen discs are a niche they can do nice things with it but it wont be greater than what others can do on 3 or 6 discs ,plus sony wants to release a new system in 4-6 years so past 5 years I cant see to clearly.
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Insult? I dunno only if it dose not ahve the 65NM CPU witch guaranties effective cooling and a stable system,if it lacks it and they glaze it over with a fan...meh ya thats a insult.

HDMI is a iffy spec anyway its already gettign to 1.3 the Xbox might have 1.2 but the aduio is crippled its the way they did it odd
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Relook at the history of the PS2 it was much more than being first,it was the only viable option for devs the DC was ding the N64 was handicapped the PSX brand was solid it was really the only choice.
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The main reason the Xbox "failed" was because it could not get devs,the 360 has managed to gain devs enough to fight the PS3 as a equal no matter what its issues are
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For the next 3 years I have a good idea what will happen

1.in the next 2 years MS will put Hdvd in the 360,
2.the HDVD/BR war will still be going strong
3.in 2 years the PS3 will finally stop limping on the road to recovery
4.in 2 years the WII will be everywhere X2

wild guessing
5.in 3-5 years the Xbox 2 is released
6.5-6 nin releases a new system
7.in 5-6 years HDvd/BR war over ? wins
8.in 4-6 someone makes a Hdvd add on for under 100(be it retail or a china kit)

9. in 4-6 years sony might update the PS3 lens to BR/hdvd and claim a PR win and frankly they would win if they had the balls to do it(in 4 years a dual drive would under 150 so the cost is nigligable)

10.I can see Sony putting off a new system for up to 7 years,and unlike the 360 its nearly perfect as far as power/hardware/stability goes even a Xbox 2 with full real Hdef support and a Hdvd drive with changeable HD a 4 core CPU double ramm(mem/video) and a 50% boost to speed (GPU/FBS/CPU) would not be much higher than the PS3.

So sony can take some time see what the others do and improve on it.

All sony needs to do with the Ps3 is improve BWC and put a dual Hdvd/Br drive in it,they would make it worth havign for everyone and ensure its longevity.

its good to allways have the option open tho. a massive multiplayer game that may require chunks of the xbox360' harddrive (because it couldnt be done with multiple discs, too much of a hassle) may run natively from the disc on the ps3.

im not saying that sony will only be able to do things that no one else will, of course they will be able to, many discs is allways an option however it has allways been a nasty option for a console. nobody likes switching discs. the last console game i remember in which I had to change discs was wing comander... and i hated that. way too many problems

Originally posted by kuhne:

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its good to allways have the option open tho. a massive multiplayer game that may require chunks of the xbox360' harddrive (because it couldnt be done with multiple discs, too much of a hassle) may run natively from the disc on the ps3.

im not saying that sony will only be able to do things that no one else will, of course they will be able to, many discs is allways an option however it has allways been a nasty option for a console. nobody likes switching discs. the last console game i remember in which I had to change discs was wing comander... and i hated that. way too many problems

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Multi discs is a fact of life and will be around for the next 10 years or until HDvd/BR wins over DVD.

Dude......do you even understand how they are getting data to stream off the BR games? by placement,dummy data,HD CACHING,better streaming algarithoms.

basically there is little difference in how devs make data work on DVD9, BR,BR needs dummy data to help place the data for quicker reading while DVD9 uses compression or algarithoms to help it.

so again they are the same and currently devs cant even handle a real 20GB game because of the loading issues on the PS3 this will be fixed in time but dont think innovation will stop for DVD9 data will be made smaller and more efficant for it while BR gains in efficacy in the end they both be doing the same thing "more data ,faster data ,better data".

Multidisc is in my opinion something of the past when talking console gaming. in my opinion sony has the future in their sights

Originally posted by kuhne:

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Multidisc is in my opinion something of the past when talking console gaming. in my opinion sony has the future in their sights

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in part yes however its not FF proof(fool/future) like the N64 HDD it has allot going for it but almost as much against it,unlike the N64 HDD its more useful and should be helpful but not so much it will gain headway on it alone.

Also because of BR the cost is at least 200 higher than it "should" be that will hurt it in the short run but help it in the long run.

So to me BR for gaming is a working gimmick, its not "needed" but is nice to have.

all im gonna say is one can of black spray paint and a piece of cardboard<>

lol im just gonna paint mine

Originally posted by IOrificeI:

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all im gonna say is one can of black spray paint and a piece of cardboard<>

lol im just gonna paint mine

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but tis already made out of glue paint and cardboard 0-o

...no bad....
if you can paint go for it I don't have the nack 0-o
would rather buy a case :X

plus the n64 carts didnt play movies... bluray may become the industy standard for movies in the future... maybe...

Originally posted by kuhne:

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plus the n64 carts didnt play movies... bluray may become the industy standard for movies in the future... maybe...

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Meh its niche market plus they are 40$ movies making it even more nichey,its a working gimmick but a gimmick non the less.

BTW the n64 could run movies RE2 was one of the first cart games to have large movie files *L*

They could run video but that was a dead format, nobody ever even imagined the posibility of buying movies in cartridges. Blu-ray or HD-DVD really have shot

kuhne
yes they do and one will replace the other in 3-6 years but in the scale of it all DVD is here to stay with the brunt of things being made on DVD first then being remade for Hdef discs,also besue these formats can paly DVD its going to shave 5 years off replaceing DVD as the main format but thats still 6-10 years off.

For now BR needs better data management for gaming mostly because of the limit the PS3 has on speed a streaming limit of 75MB the HDD is going to play a huge role in handling data I think,unless they find compression algorithms to speed up data transport funny thign abotu compressed data more can be sent thru it and quickly unpacked than moveing large ammoutns of data unpacked.

The PS3 is a monster in nearly everything it dose once they find how to maximize data flow you'll be seeing some nice stuff,but until then its hurting more than its helping.

yeah but in reality both consoles are a bit screwed up when it comes to hardware, the main diference is that sony is just a bit quiet about the whole thing trying to figure out how to fix it and microsoft fixes it the way they allways do.. they just release a new one. Not that it'll fix anything. the xbox 360 is basicaly from a movie viewing machine point of view is lacking, now they add HDMI, so it is now a dvd player with HDMI.. unless you get the external adaptor.

I dont know, I think they really both are hurting when it comes to hardware, they are both capable of incredible graphics and I believe we will actualy be seeing games made for bluray in the not too far future. maybe by that time there will already be a ps4 but sony doesnt let their older systems die, just like ps2... it still is the most owned console in the planet, I think ps3 is gona have an even bigger lifespan than that because sony is known to squeeze all they can from their consoles even when the graphics suck, they still release good games for those consoles and when ps1 and ps2 launched, they werent regarded as the top of the heap when it came to graphics. they were good but they were easily outdone by the competition. Now Sony actualy has the most powerfull console out there, i see the ps3 going for a solid 10 years before it completly dies out

Originally posted by kuhne:

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yeah but in reality both consoles are a bit screwed up when it comes to hardware, the main diference is that sony is just a bit quiet about the whole thing trying to figure out how to fix it and microsoft fixes it the way they allways do.. they just release a new one. Not that it'll fix anything. the xbox 360 is basicaly from a movie viewing machine point of view is lacking, now they add HDMI, so it is now a dvd player with HDMI.. unless you get the external adaptor.

I dont know, I think they really both are hurting when it comes to hardware, they are both capable of incredible graphics and I believe we will actualy be seeing games made for bluray in the not too far future. maybe by that time there will already be a ps4 but sony doesnt let their older systems die, just like ps2... it still is the most owned console in the planet, I think ps3 is gona have an even bigger lifespan than that because sony is known to squeeze all they can from their consoles even when the graphics suck, they still release good games for those consoles and when ps1 and ps2 launched, they werent regarded as the top of the heap when it came to graphics. they were good but they were easily outdone by the competition. Now Sony actualy has the most powerfull console out there, i see the ps3 going for a solid 10 years before it completly dies out

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*nods nods*
I agree with most of it(I just don't see BR/Hdvd games getting out of a niche in 5ish years)
I keeping both eyes on sonys BWC they are arrogant enough to think they don't need it,they are removing the chip from new machines world wide as well as the US so the next revision wont have it making it play half as many PS2/PSX games but as long as they understand its part of the main picture of the PS3 I can let them off dcking with the hardware.

As for MS its a fing mess when it works it offers great things for the price but MS is bing sloppy in their approach.

I realy like the WII compared to them both as a game machine its solid and fun and has a ton of games coming for it unlike the other 2 that are jabbing at each other and playign with their dcks and and trying to hard be a media machine than a game machine.

The way I see it its either get a 360 that has good software(games,live) but bad hardware, or get a PS3 which has potentially good hardware(hasnt yet proven itself) but still not a good software lineup. So you get one system with problems that can and are being fixed daily (ps3) or you get a system that needs to be replaced/repaired every few months. Then with M$ screwing their HDMI up it just gets worse for them. And the fact that HDD for 360 is optional thanks to the core system Devs dont have to bother with HDD caching, and most wont.(

Quote:

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6. Standard HDD
When we were developing for PS2, I was jealous of Xbox’s standard hard drive. There are so many things this allowed you to consider as a developer – virtually unlimited save data, improved load times, custom music, downloadable content and user-created content just to name a few. But since hard drives, no matter what the size, never get cheaper than about $50, Microsoft lost money trying to compete with the PS2’s price. That may be the reason they left it out of the cheaper Xbox 360 SKU, thinking that Sony would again leave out the hard drive on the PS3. Instead, Sony made the hard drive standard for both SKUs. This added to the cost of the PS3, but it also let developers use the HDD in games.

The problem with including a hard drive in one version of the 360 and not in the other is that developers can’t use it for the games. Or, at least, they can’t use it for any required features. When you are guaranteed to have at least a 20 GB hard drive in the console, you can write your load caching routines around it, or use it for your application’s storage needs. To a developer, an optional hard drive is roughly equivalent to no hard drive at all.

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From Insomniac games, believe you've seen the thread Zippy.

I personally would agree with everything said kuhne's first post.

On a side note I've just come into some unexpected money so if I can find one I might just get me a PS3 in a few days time, was pretty amazed to find out most places were sold out given the price, but from what info I could get each store only got like 4-5 consoles at launch then received another 2-3 a few days later.

EDIT: Apparently DVD also started out as a "niche" product also but look at it now...

I lean more toward with Andrew691 but zippy knows what he is saying and it makes sense if it all pans out the way he does.


btw I agree with zippy about the Wii.. its just more fun and less heads up their asses

Andrew691
all standards start out as a niche,it took DVD 10ish years to gain the trust of the consumer and it was fighting LD witch was a monster and VHS witch was the standard,LD kinda imploded from bad hardware pressings and price so DVD was the only option and won out in the end.

HDVD and BR are equals in nearly all ways they have to finish the other off before they can take DVD,the battle with DVD will be short(3-6 years) because both support DVD and all you need is the hardware itself however the long messy battle is Hdvd vs. BR because of that mess I don't see one "winning" against DVD for at least 7 years the advancement in tech and price both should have 150 players in 4 years dual players should be cheap if not under 200,but there needs to be a clear winner for DVD to be toppled,however they can join forces or at least reasonably disagree and have hardware makers make dual players with that the "war" and they can both DP DVD either way they need to focus on DVD to topple it and currently they cant or wont.

the next 3 or 4 one of the next gen formats is going to trump the other dual players will be big so the winner will only gain most of hollywood while the other will be clung to over a few years during the fight with DVD,sicne Hdvd and BR is huge they could simply have manufactures build dual players make them "standard" and nuke DVD.


but in all DVD is here to stay for the the next 10 years as the brunt of what the media industries sale media on.

When the Ps2 is launched i am not that excited as i dont know anything about the games at that time. But when i< ahref="http://hubpages.com/hub/Copy_PS2_Games_Free"> copy PS2 games</a> than i get to realize why people are so crazy about the Play Station.But after that when i get news of PS3, I behaved like crazy.So,I think that Xbox-360 will not be able to catch up with PS3.

Originally posted by chankya:

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When the Ps2 is launched i am not that excited as i dont know anything about the games at that time. But when i< ahref="http://hubpages.com/hub/Copy_PS2_Games_Free"> copy PS2 games</a> than i get to realize why people are so crazy about the Play Station.But after that when i get news of PS3, I behaved like crazy.So,I think that Xbox-360 will not be able to catch up with PS3.

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The 360 has sold 11 million units the PS3 5 million units and the WII has sold 12 million units sicne tis launch, the PS3 has to catch up with the rest, once it dose it should be able to stabilize itself and repair the damage to the brand..