FBI arrests LulzSec and Anonymous members

Now put them to death as an example to other hackers!

OK, just throw them in jail for up to 20-30 years w/ no computer access allowed (and only DORA THE EXPLORER vids to watch).

Yes, but they never did find Red John.

Originally posted by xnonsuchx:

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Now put them to death as an example to other hackers!

OK, just throw them in jail for up to 20-30 years w/ no computer access allowed (and only DORA THE EXPLORER vids to watch).

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Yeah, exactly. Because screwing over the people who routinely screw us over is so much worse than killing or raping anyone...

I still don't particularly agree with them, but I disagree with American politics and its judiciary system even more. Yes I'm American. Yes, I do actually try, but writing to senators and voting doesn't seem to have done a damned thing; big surprise.

Conspiracy & impairment... Nothing in there yet that smacks of the boosted personal information "THEFT" that was the biggest problem. At the moment it just sounds like a couple more losers to me. Not that this guessing game of "Guess the Anonymous - BallSack" regime show has fared well with me in the past.

I'm really thinking these guys may have just run interference for the real culprits again.

Originally posted by xnonsuchx:

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Now put them to death as an example to other hackers!

OK, just throw them in jail for up to 20-30 years w/ no computer access allowed (and only DORA THE EXPLORER vids to watch).

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had they physically broken into companies and stole the files rather than computer data they probably would of got in a lot less trouble.

Originally posted by buxtahuda:

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Originally posted by xnonsuchx:

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Now put them to death as an example to other hackers!

OK, just throw them in jail for up to 20-30 years w/ no computer access allowed (and only DORA THE EXPLORER vids to watch).

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Yeah, exactly. Because screwing over the people who routinely screw us over is so much worse than killing or raping anyone...

I still don't particularly agree with them, but I disagree with American politics and its judiciary system even more. Yes I'm American. Yes, I do actually try, but writing to senators and voting doesn't seem to have done a damned thing; big surprise.

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They can be given life for all I care as they might have my info without my written connect.

These people haven't asked if they can hack for my info
haven't asked me if I want them to have my info
haven't asked me if I want them to on sell that info

So these people can go to the slammer just for the above.

Just because YOU [these people] don't like a company or something that is happening doesn't give them consent to stealing people's data and doing what ever they like, that is simply breaking the law because you think you are above the law.

Some people need a wake up call as some of the stuff these groups are whining about are quite Trivial at best.

What the Sony hack was simply because they couldn't install a different OS onto a console, who cares really, the solution go and buy a bloody PC for the OS, it'd be cheaper than a PS3 that can't use all the functions of the OS anyway.

Talk about a bunch of tossers.

Originally posted by xtago:

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Originally posted by buxtahuda:

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Originally posted by xnonsuchx:

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Now put them to death as an example to other hackers!

OK, just throw them in jail for up to 20-30 years w/ no computer access allowed (and only DORA THE EXPLORER vids to watch).

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Yeah, exactly. Because screwing over the people who routinely screw us over is so much worse than killing or raping anyone...

I still don't particularly agree with them, but I disagree with American politics and its judiciary system even more. Yes I'm American. Yes, I do actually try, but writing to senators and voting doesn't seem to have done a damned thing; big surprise.

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They can be given life for all I care as they might have my info without my written connect.

These people haven't asked if they can hack for my info
haven't asked me if I want them to have my info
haven't asked me if I want them to on sell that info

So these people can go to the slammer just for the above.

Just because YOU [these people] don't like a company or something that is happening doesn't give them consent to stealing people's data and doing what ever they like, that is simply breaking the law because you think you are above the law.

Some people need a wake up call as some of the stuff these groups are whining about are quite Trivial at best.

What the Sony hack was simply because they couldn't install a different OS onto a console, who cares really, the solution go and buy a bloody PC for the OS, it'd be cheaper than a PS3 that can't use all the functions of the OS anyway.

Talk about a bunch of tossers.

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The Other OS feature is one of the reasons I got my PS3, how fun (and useful, as in the Condor built by the Air Force) to be able to use my OWN (as in purchased property of mine) PS3 for its awesome-for-the-price hardware however I like. I mean, if anything it's the principle; if Sony can remove key selling points at any time and make it mandatory to do so if you're still wanting to use the PS3 for games, what's to keep any of our other web-accessing possessions from being assaulted and limited by the people we've already paid for the damned things? It's just wrong... And above the law? What laws, whose laws? These corporations'? I don't see my votes having affected anything in this country at all, wonder why.

Originally posted by xboxdvl2:

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Originally posted by xnonsuchx:

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Now put them to death as an example to other hackers!

OK, just throw them in jail for up to 20-30 years w/ no computer access allowed (and only DORA THE EXPLORER vids to watch).

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had they physically broken into companies and stole the files rather than computer data they probably would of got in a lot less trouble.

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^^^

without groups like these there would be no one to point out any injustice among big cyber buisness.there would also be no justice like what they did to sony. big buisness would just take your money and sell you a bill of goods like the ps3.the government wont regulate big buisness that is clear.so when people like these do it there labeled terrorist.so government can use all its resourses to go after them. hackers have your personal info so what.havent herd them useing it. when you apply for a credit card or buy a house your info is sold to other credit places and none of you pu$$yS say a word. and that is all legal!!

Originally posted by xtago:

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These people haven't asked if they can hack for my info
haven't asked me if I want them to have my info
haven't asked me if I want them to on sell that info

So these people can go to the slammer just for the above.

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I'm fine with this as well, but if I'm reading the rest of your comments in the right tone & candor as well, Who gave Sony or any other corporations the permission to "sell" your information off to others scott free as well? Sure, they wrap it up in a bunch of fine print & legalese that takes a $1200 an hour lawyer (on a $10K retainer) to certify your absolute rights from such things; and you can say, "shame on you for still clicking on the "OK" button anyway.", but that would make you a prick for saying such a thing.

Why? Didn't you (just like the rest of us) just pay $60-ish for that piece of software (or whatever) already for the privilege (or whatever these a-holes are defining it to be these days) to use it already?

At some point these corporations had better get it through their thick skulls; once the public gets involved "monetarily", they're PARTNERS!!!

I'd have a problem if these guys were the type of hackers that steal credit cards, but so far I haven't heard that.

So far, I haven't had problems with the hacktivism going on. In Sony's case it showed us that Sony had no problem broadcasting our billing and credit card information unencrypted all over the Internet. I'm glad some hackers who DIDN'T want my credit card information exposed Sony's negligence before Eastern European hackers figured out how to empty my bank accounts via Sony.

Originally posted by buxtahuda:

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... screwing over the people who routinely screw us over is so much worse than killing or raping anyone...

I still don't particularly agree with them, but I disagree with American politics and its judiciary system even more. Yes I'm American. Yes, I do actually try, but writing to senators and voting doesn't seem to have done a damned thing; big surprise.

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Buxie, did it EVER occur to you that there are 315 million OTHER people in this country? Don't we also have the right to have an opinion, even if should be (horror of horrors) different from yours? No, not everything the government does I agree with. In fact, I disagree with most. But I'm not so selfish and self-centered to confuse my lack of getting my way with something terribly wrong witht he country as a whole. Grow up and get a life ... or call Vanna - maybe she can sell you one.

Originally posted by ToadWiz:

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Originally posted by buxtahuda:

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... screwing over the people who routinely screw us over is so much worse than killing or raping anyone...

I still don't particularly agree with them, but I disagree with American politics and its judiciary system even more. Yes I'm American. Yes, I do actually try, but writing to senators and voting doesn't seem to have done a damned thing; big surprise.

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Buxie, did it EVER occur to you that there are 315 million OTHER people in this country? Don't we also have the right to have an opinion, even if should be (horror of horrors) different from yours? No, not everything the government does I agree with. In fact, I disagree with most. But I'm not so selfish and self-centered to confuse my lack of getting my way with something terribly wrong witht he country as a whole. Grow up and get a life ... or call Vanna - maybe she can sell you one.

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I'm not here to get in a row, so I'm not even going to keep this on. I'm just saying that nothing criminal has happened with the information other than the initial gathering, and that it's a non-violent crime regardless. These kids could spend life in jail for finding some exploits (or lack of security altogether), while plenty roam free having killed or even done the exact same thing and used the information taken for identity/credit fraud. But because they decided to poke certain corporations, the government goes hopping immediately?

I appreciate your comment, sorry I seem so self-centered for thinking that ethics and logic have a place in life; or that if a country is a corporate republic, they shouldn't say it's a democracy. Everyone in this country could vote for a president; you know what would happen? Electoral college says f*ck all and chooses the other guy. And we don't choose laws, we appoint a small number of biased people to do so for us, who are legally allowed to accept bribes in the form of "campaign donations."

And I'm truly sorry I post without too much thought, as I post in between working. I actually am sorry about that one, I'm not being sarcastic. Suppose I'll submit all further comments to a board to assure political "correctness" and neutrality.

I know there are other opinions in the world. Just voicing mine mate.

Originally posted by buxtahuda:

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I'm just saying that nothing criminal has happened with the information other than the initial gathering, and that it's a non-violent crime regardless. These kids ...

I appreciate your comment, sorry I seem so self-centered for thinking that ethics and logic have a place in life; or that if a country is a corporate republic...

And we don't choose laws, we appoint a small number of biased people to do so for us, who are legally allowed to accept bribes in the form of "campaign donations."

Suppose I'll submit all further comments to a board to assure political "correctness" and neutrality.

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Kids? Really? Ok, let them be "kids" if it pleases you. And what do these kids grow into, after having hacked into government and financial databases? And will you care if they steal your identity (as mine has been stolen TWICE) emptying your bank account and causing you to spend months in a futile attempt to clear your good name? Sorry, in the case of these "kids" I really do think Sharia law is appropriate. (Thieves have their right hands cut off.)

You didn't seem self-centered for thinking that ethics and logic have a place in life; or that if a country is a corporate republic. You seemed self-centered for posting what amounted to, "I voted. I didn't get my way. The system is broken." Just clarifying that. As for a corporate republic, I don't disagree. But most of the time that people complain about corporations having too much influence over elections, they conveniently forget the influence of newpapers and unions. Look, let's agree right now that corporate, union, and media influences are ALL bad ... or if you don't want to do that, then understand I WILL NOT SIT BY and let you stifle the voices that push issues I am interested in while those groups which push yours get a free pass. If we want DEMOCRACY, let's don't have any half steps.

As far as legislators go, I agree with you. I'd go even further. I think there is a clear conflict of interest in allowing lawyers to make laws they and their class benefits from. Even worse, consider ... if you have a toothache, do you go to a lawyer? If you need a road built, is a lawyer your first thought? We send the people LEAST likely to solve a problem to congress instead of sending engineers, doctors, economists, scientists, etc, and then we are surprised when nothing gets done. There should be a law that possession of a legal degree at any level is a bar to membership in at least one of the two houses of congress.

Political correctness? You won't find any here. I call 'em like I see 'em.

Regards, Toad

Am I wrong? Haven't most of these arrests been pretty much teen proxies?

My information has been taken, at least once in the PSN takedown, and I haven't seen anything on my accounts. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean anything, but I also have not heard of anyone else having issues with fraud. "...emptying your bank account and causing you to spend months in a futile attempt to clear your good name?" Has this happened to you or someone you know affected by the "attacks"?

"I voted. I didn't get my way. The system is broken." It is if my vote was with the majority. It is when a select few are molding our laws and lives while millions shouting may be heard, but are never listened to. I'm not even talking anything that's actually happened to me, I'm talking about what's allowed and has happened before. John Adams, Rutherford Hayes, Benjamin Harrison, and the whopper himself George Bush. Not many throughout the history of our country eh? But it should still throw up the reddest of flags , and throw in voting fraud and I just don't see how a vote amounts to anything at all. The system is absolutely broken because neither you nor I, being on different ends, get our way. And neither do millions of other people, even if those ways are the same. What did you think of the whole WikiLeaks fiasco?

All I know is that when I hear of a more-or-less average person doing these things (in the name of all average persons or not), they get all the dogs sicked on them. But I don't hear that happening too often when these things happen to the benefit of major companies or the government. They're telling us they are the masters and that we will be punished going against them, and you seem glad to go along with it even while agreeing it's corrupt and wrong.

And had they not done this, someone else would have eventually, and it would have actually been malicious. You're information was stolen not because these people particularly wanted it, but because the ones you entrusted it to didn't particularly care to protect it. Just feels to me that the ones that actually care about us are getting arrested, and the ones that don't are getting off free.

i walked into a m8s house 1 day sat in his room put a cd on and rang him.On the phone i told him you really need to lock the house up when you go out.these groups are basically accessing data bases and saying you need to increase your security so we cant hack them.maybe the companies should hire members of lulzsec and anonymous to put security on there websites and data bases so they dont get hacked.

@toadwiz i highly doubt anonymous or lulzsec would waste there time accessing your info to steal from you.If your info did get hacked and your money stolen,it was probably some unknown average hacker that did it cause they saw you as an easy target.

Originally posted by buxtahuda:

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Am I wrong? Haven't most of these arrests been pretty much teen proxies?

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"Cody Kretsinger, 23, Christopher Doyon, 47 and Joshua Covelli, 26 were each indicted."

Originally posted by buxtahuda:

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"...emptying your bank account and causing you to spend months in a futile attempt to clear your good name?" Has this happened to you or someone you know affected by the "attacks"?

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Let me say again, I've been the victim of ID theft twice. That doesn't mean Lulzsec did it. What it means is that pretending a crime isn't bad because it didn't cause you personally any harm is a dangerous attitude. I just wonder how many of the people who commit ID theft don't see themselves as modern day Robin Hoods, stealing from the rich and giving to ... themselves, or see stealing my ID as some kind of civil disobedience against the system. Just WHO appointed Lulzsec judge, jury, and executioner to administer the law in the way that suits them? And if you are foolish enough to support there crimes, what will you say if you wind up as one of their victims, even if only by imitation, by mistake, or because one of these "heroes" graduated to using his skills for theft?

Originally posted by buxtahuda:

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"I voted. I didn't get my way. The system is broken." It is if my vote was with the majority. It is when a select few are molding our laws and lives while millions shouting may be heard, but are never listened to. I'm not even talking anything that's actually happened to me, I'm talking about what's allowed and has happened before. John Adams, Rutherford Hayes, Benjamin Harrison, and the whopper himself George Bush. Not many throughout the history of our country eh? But it should still throw up the reddest of flags , and throw in voting fraud and I just don't see how a vote amounts to anything at all. The system is absolutely broken because neither you nor I, being on different ends, get our way. And neither do millions of other people, even if those ways are the same. What did you think of the whole WikiLeaks fiasco?

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Let's put this into context and while we are doing it, let's pretend that your statement above is absolutely correct. (Although every single time there is an attempt to estimate what the actual vote differences were, a different number is arrived at.) In terms of percentages, do you happen to know the percentage difference is the vote counts? By every single measure I've heard, the largest difference is 0.8%. Ok, let's do some math. Less than 80 million people vote even in our presidential elections, so a 0.8% differential means 40,320,000 voted one way and 39,680,000 voted the other. Now again, this is assuming that every single contest you listed above went the wrong way and by the largest measure of difference (whether true or not) claimed by anyone doing the vote counting. Are you really going to claim to me that a differential of 640,000 people out of 80 million means the system is broken? No matter how you feel about it, or I do, there are still 39,680,000 who did get their way. And let's remember, that's assuming you allegations are correct in every instance. I was in Afghanistan when the most recent election was held and there were a lot of reports of military votes not being counted ... interesting how the left rarely complains about that inequity, given that the military vote is about 80% conservative.

So let me say that my answer is THINK OF AND DEVELOP a better solution. Or at least don't whine that the system is broken simply because you didn't get your way. Let me suggest that there are ways people from both sides can work together to make the situation better. Examples: 1) Illegal immigration. Are free citizenship and deporting all illegals the only two possible solutions? What about a guest worker program? 2) Gridlock. Wouldn't giving the line-item veto to the President eliminate at least some of the smoke-filled backroom deals? 3) Corporate government. Could we possibly agree on limiting the access of all non-persons to the electoral process? Corporations, unions, and the media, we all get something and we increase the voice of the people.

Originally posted by buxtahuda:

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All I know is that when I hear of a more-or-less average person doing these things (in the name of all average persons or not), they get all the dogs sicked on them. But I don't hear that happening too often when these things happen to the benefit of major companies or the government. They're telling us they are the masters and that we will be punished going against them, and you seem glad to go along with it even while agreeing it's corrupt and wrong.

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And what I am asking in return is, Do you want to live in Tombstone, Arizona, circa 1889? (The shootout at the OK corral.) Is vigilanteism the solution to all our problems? And what happens when I like my vigilante but not yours, and vice versa? I DETEST the ways corporations have treated the American people. Even more, I detest the ways lawyers have used the legislative process to enrich only their class at the expense of the rest of us. And while we are talking about wrongs, who speaks for workers in North Carolina? Boeing spent about $1 billion building a plant in NC. AFTER the plant was build, unions have taken Boeing to court to force its closure. Why? Because NC is a right to work state, which means a NC worker can't be forced to join a union as a condition of employment.

OK, so we are agreed that lots of bad things are happening in our society. So are vigilantes the answer?

Originally posted by buxtahuda:

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And had they not done this, someone else would have eventually, and it would have actually been malicious. You're information was stolen not because these people particularly wanted it, but because the ones you entrusted it to didn't particularly care to protect it. Just feels to me that the ones that actually care about us are getting arrested, and the ones that don't are getting off free.

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And I maintain that making ANY crime acceptable makes us all less safe, not more. I don't think Lulzsec are doing this because they care about you. They are doing it because they aren't getting their way and they are too selfish and self-centered. They are the Clantons (or the Earps, if you would rather) at the OK corral and innocent people are getting hurt in the crossfire.

Originally posted by xboxdvl2:

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i walked into a m8s house 1 day sat in his room put a cd on and rang him.On the phone i told him you really need to lock the house up when you go out.these groups are basically accessing data bases and saying you need to increase your security so we cant hack them.maybe the companies should hire members of lulzsec and anonymous to put security on there websites and data bases so they dont get hacked.

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In other words, extortion. "If you don't pay me to stop, I'll keep hacking your computers." You sure you want to live in a society that rewards extortion? Also, did you consider just who caught those who have been caught? Wouldn't it likely be people with the same skills as Lulzsec and Anonymous, but with enough conscientiousness, loyalty, and honor to join the FBI or CERT or whomever the "right" way rather than extorting a position?

And if you are going to pretend that being able to hack indicates superior skill, I think you are wrong. There are dynamics to attack and defense, in the military, in competitive sports, and in hacking. The Attacker gets to choose the time and point of attack. The Defender has to defend everything (or at least as much as possible.) Thus the advantage is to the Attacker until the attack begins. Then a truer measure of skill is how whether the attacker gets away or not. Several members of Lulzsec did not. I think that counters your argument.

Originally posted by xboxdvl2:

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@toadwiz i highly doubt anonymous or lulzsec would waste there time accessing your info to steal from you.If your info did get hacked and your money stolen,it was probably some unknown average hacker that did it cause they saw you as an easy target.

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Oh, I expect it was an Ebay hacker who got into one of the Mom and Pop shops I occasionally purchase from. The most recent SOB cost me a lot of time, but got very little in terms of money.I was able to track him to an AOL account in Atlanta, GA, but the police aren't interested in investigating tiny little crimes. That's why I'm opposed to Lulzsec's vigilante justice, unless I am equally allowed to track the SOB down and deliver some justice to him.

Originally posted by ToadWiz:

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...but the police aren't interested in investigating tiny little crimes.

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I was interested in your tit-for-tat with one of our lesser armed forum contestants earlier when i ran across this portion of your comment. After also gleaning over your discussions (and hopefully in such a short period of profiling) seem to think that between vigilantism & your moniker (and its hint toward the true definition of justice) you have a bit of a conundrum going on.

Most folks on here hopefully see my comments as a comedic hiccup, so don't take any offense. Nor am I making light of what you're writing here, but after having been ripped off twice & being able to track down at least one culprit only to have the cops to tell you to "pound sand", I mean... a couple of my old blogs tells the story of what I did. But I wonder how you deal with the frustration.

im not saying reward extortion im saying work with them instead of being the victim of them.You wanna test a lock you dont say to the police can you pick my lock i wanna make sure its safe.you ask a theif or someone who use to be a theif to test the lock them ask them how do i change it so it doesnt get picked.you want a website that doesnt get hacked you ask someone that hacks websites to hack your website then ask them how can i change my website so it doesnt get hacked.

Originally posted by LordRuss:

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Originally posted by ToadWiz:

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...but the police arent interested in investigating tiny little crimes.

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I was interested in your tit-for-tat with one of our lesser armed forum contestants earlier when i ran across this portion of your comment. After also gleaning over your discussions (and hopefully in such a short period of profiling) seem to think that between vigilantism & your moniker (and its hint toward the true definition of justice) you have a bit of a conundrum going on.

Most folks on here hopefully see my comments as a comedic hiccup, so dont take any offense. Nor am I making light of what youre writing here, but after having been ripped off twice & being able to track down at least one culprit only to have the cops to tell you to "pound sand", I mean... a couple of my old blogs tells the story of what I did. But I wonder how you deal with the frustration.

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I'd be interested in what the profile you built says about me. I also don't understand what you think my moniker says about me.

I look forward to reading your blog. Meanwhile let me say that I believe in the "Rule of Law". It doesn't mean I always like the Law, but I think society is better off when we respect the laws we have and try to keep them. That's why I'm infuriated with vigilantes and those who think that vigilantes they approve of are good. If everyone gets to pick and choose the laws they are willing to obey ... well, you tell me if that's the society you want to live in. Say you approve if I hack into a business computer and steal their secrets. Do you also approve if I hack into your bank and steal your money? Same crime. People with brains should be careful of which Robin Hoods they look up to, lest them find themselves having to look to the Sheriff of Nottingham for justice.

Originally posted by xboxdvl2:

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im not saying reward extortion im saying work with them instead of being the victim of them.You wanna test a lock you dont say to the police can you pick my lock i wanna make sure its safe.you ask a theif or someone who use to be a theif to test the lock them ask them how do i change it so it doesnt get picked.you want a website that doesnt get hacked you ask someone that hacks websites to hack your website then ask them how can i change my website so it doesnt get hacked.

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Just a week ago, my truck was broken into. The low-life scumbag didn't get anything useful. He took a "Redneck Horn" with a burned out battery and a zippered folder with my truck's maintenance manual, license tag receipts, and proof of insurance. (i.e. he didn't get enough to buy a drag from a roach.) Meanwhile he did $250 damage to my truck.

By your standards, I should go find the douche-bag and ask him how to keep him out next time. Instead I went to Car Toys and asked their opinion. I now have a dual zone alarm and proximity detector. YMMV

I'm honestly curious how/why you've had your identity stolen twice. Once is a fairly unusual occurrence. Twice is much moreso.

I completely agree with you that I want to see thieves imprisoned. You're right...the police generally don't give a crap and it's infuriating.

Hacking does not equal theft. Lashing out at all hackers because some have screwed you is like shooting the Sikh running the local convenience store because Saudi Wahabbist extremists flew airplanes into the Twin Towers.

Originally posted by IguanaC64:

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I'm honestly curious how/why you've had your identity stolen twice. Once is a fairly unusual occurrence. Twice is much moreso.

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I'm a soldier, although retired as of 2009. My Social Security Number is also my service number, and is way to easy to find. Thus the first time my ID was stolen was an attempt to apply for credit cards using my data. The second was just the theft of my credit card information, probably from an Ebay seller. Regardless, I don't think ID theft is as unlikely as you seem to think. It is also increasing rapidly.

Originally posted by IguanaC64:

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I completely agree with you that I want to see thieves imprisoned. You're right...the police generally don't give a crap and it's infuriating.

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I can't agree with that. They do care, but there only so much crime that they can investigate. Besides, just because I was able to trace the IP address to AOL in Atlanta doesn't end the investigation nor does it convince the police that my methods were valid. I'd like to have seen them hang the SOB out to dry as a warning to other ID thieves, but I can understand why they didn't feel it was worth investigating.

Originally posted by IguanaC64:

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Hacking does not equal theft. Lashing out at all hackers because some have screwed you is like shooting the Sikh running the local convenience store because Saudi Wahabbist extremists flew airplanes into the Twin Towers.

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First, i was one of the early hackers myself, breaking my first computer security program in 1977. We did it for the challenge, not as a political statement. Once you hack to support your political cause, you are headed down the slippery slope. If you wouldn't want it done to you, why would you do it to someone else? And from there it's just a matter of degree. (I'm not a criminal, I'm a freedom fighter! I need to hack into people's bank accounts to support the cause!) So I don't think your comparison to a Sikh convenience store operator is valid. In fact, I'd say the numbnutz who killed that Sikh used the same amount of brains and logic as the hackers who disseminate information resulting in the deaths of our informants in Afghanistan ... i.e. they are dirtbags and no punishment is sufficient for causing someone's death to support some vigilante's cause.

@Toad... I feel for you, but I have lived a life by the sword. some 20 years ago when my car got broken into, I too put an alarm on it... But the thieves thought they were bright & would nightly bump the car to set the alarm off to see what I'd do. Knowing they would do this, I did nothing & waited them out for 2 weeks. Like clock work, again they came to the car with a slim-jim & their wiley-ways and started breaking into the car. Alarm blaring & the driver side open I popped up with my riot shot gun and put 2 rounds into the chest of the first guy & 2 rounds into the legs of the one running away.

I shut off the alarm, locked the doors, closed the vehicle back up and left the bodies lie where they may. Policed up my brass & didn't think any more about the incident until the police came & questioned me.

The moral to the story, thank your stars that Russell was using rock salt that night in the 12 gauge. Needless to say, the property value in my neighborhood goes up & down dramatically dependent on my attitude.

As to your moniker, I just feel you may not have faith in 'justice' or it's definition. While I can applaud your faith in the legal system, I can not share your sentiments.

@Toad... Thanks for serving. I was a 25V, 1995 to 2001, glad to see you made it.

@Toadwiz...that's unfortunate that it's so easy to find your info only because you joined the armed forces. That should be separated. I have bought almost every bit of electronics/computer equipment online...as well as a lot of aftermarket car parts and other misc stuff on Ebay. Maybe I've just been lucky. I was curious about your situation to see if there was something more I should be avoiding.

I just recently had my TV stolen from my living room while I was out of town. $900 TV. We told the cops who did it. To this date, those guys have never been questioned. This was two months ago...maybe I'm expecting things to move faster. The feeling we got from the cop was either that it was too much of a bother for a $900 TV. I don't have much faith that the cops (at least in my area) care or will do much beyond file the report.

My comparison was an example of using an extreme punishment for one thing that would be used against someone who committed a much lesser crime. Trespass is an annoyance. Theft is a crime deserving of real punishment. Without hackers we wouldn't have known that Sony was blasting our unencrypted financial data across the Internet to anyone who could get inside Sony's network.

Originally posted by LordRuss:

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While I can applaud your faith in the legal system, I can not share your sentiments.

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Russ, Good thing it was you the douchebag tried to steal from. I don't have any rock salt, but I do have a .45 Combat Commander pitching 265 grain FMJs at 1450 FPS. I don't really want to kill some b@stard for stealing from me, but I'm tired of having to repair my truck for some parasite who is too lazy to get a job.

As for my Signature, I don't have any faith in the legal system. I'm convinced that lawyers are the bane of American existence, responsible for almost everything that is wrong with the country. But what we have, no matter how poorly it works, is still better than vigilianteism.

Likewise thank you for putting it on the line for our country. 1973-2009, 11B, 96B, 37F, 19K, 25B, Jumpmaster, Sergeant Major, 4 combat tours.

Originally posted by IguanaC64:

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I was curious about your situation to see if there was something more I should be avoiding.

We told the cops who did it. The feeling we got from the cop was either that it was too much of a bother for a $900 TV. I don't have much faith that the cops (at least in my area) care or will do much beyond file the report.

Trespass is an annoyance. Theft is a crime deserving of real punishment. Without hackers we wouldn't have known that Sony was blasting our unencrypted financial data across the Internet to anyone who could get inside Sony's network.

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Iggy, does you handle have anything to do with the Commodore 64? I worked for Commodore back in 1983, when the owners were pumping the stock up and down for their benefit and ruining the company.

EBay ... I'd say you have to be careful to examine your statements every month. I have found that there are companies which sell overpriced goods that (for obvious reasons) don't check card ownership very carefully. Likewise credit card transactions in Reno and Atlantic City do not require the purchaser to know the 3 digit code on the back of the card. A suspicious person (like me) might assume they don't really care if the card is stolen or not, as long as they get money. Stolen data is becoming a high-value item on certain chat rooms, worth up for $4 per account.

So, if some vigilante hacks into Amazon, what is he doing other than making it harder for the police to capture criminals who are committing other crimes? In my experience, it isn't that the cops don't care. It's the number of cases they have to deal with and the need to pursue those which offer the highest reurn for the time they have to spend on it.

Sony's use of DRM to infect people's computers who bought Sony CDs is a fine example of something that Sony should be punished for. And if hackers were involved, I applaud the results. But I cannot applaud wikileaks, when some poor Afghani loses his life for giving us information, and we didn't manage to protect his identity. But Lawyers don't take on cases based on what is right and wrong. They take on cases where they have a chance to win the Golden Lawsuit that enables them to buy a private island in the South Pacific. That's why I hate lawyers.

Originally posted by ToadWiz:

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Originally posted by xboxdvl2:

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im not saying reward extortion im saying work with them instead of being the victim of them.You wanna test a lock you dont say to the police can you pick my lock i wanna make sure its safe.you ask a theif or someone who use to be a theif to test the lock them ask them how do i change it so it doesnt get picked.you want a website that doesnt get hacked you ask someone that hacks websites to hack your website then ask them how can i change my website so it doesnt get hacked.

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Just a week ago, my truck was broken into. The low-life scumbag didn't get anything useful. He took a "Redneck Horn" with a burned out battery and a zippered folder with my truck's maintenance manual, license tag receipts, and proof of insurance. (i.e. he didn't get enough to buy a drag from a roach.) Meanwhile he did $250 damage to my truck.

By your standards, I should go find the douche-bag and ask him how to keep him out next time. Instead I went to Car Toys and asked their opinion. I now have a dual zone alarm and proximity detector. YMMV

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my car got broken into lastyear and the street directory stolen didnt care as i had 3 street directories but pissed me off the lock and door handle was broken.when my brothers car got broken into he got custom locks fitted.No one likes being stolen from.I'm not a big fan of car alarms as in my teenage years some of the other teenagers i knew would be in and out of a car with the sterio in about 30seconds at the local shopping centre most the time the car alarms would go off and no one would care or even notice.immobilizers seem ok (apart from the crook turned mechanic that removed them in about 30seconds on a current affair) but its not hard to pop the bonnet and remove the rotar arm(old fashion way of stopping a car getting stolen).by my standards you should have better locks (ones that cant be picked in 30seconds with a screwdriver) on the car.having a muscular greyhound chained to the wheel of your truck would ensure no one goes anywhere near it.

as for the comparison to the sikh running the convenience store.im surprised the americans havnt rounded up all the muslims and locked them up.heard stories about 1942 saying they rounded up all the japanese living in america and imprisoned them

Originally posted by xboxdvl2:

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im surprised the americans havnt rounded up all the muslims and locked them up.heard stories about 1942 saying they rounded up all the japanese living in america and imprisoned them

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There are better alarms now and I got a good one. Proximity sensor, dual shock detector, battery backup, rotating alarm code, and a truly functional engine disable. What I really want is to keep someone from smashing my window. I don;t leave anything valuable in my truck, but $250 to replace the window is too much.

I don't have anything against Moslems or their religion. Islam is no more responsible for terrorism than Christianity is for abortion clinic bombers. It is possible that we learned from the 1942 experience.

On the other hand, about 20,000 Russian-made SA-7 Grail SAMs (shoulder fired antiaircraft missile) are missing from the Libyan arsenal. (Isn't the Arab Spring a wonderful thing?) All things considered, it will be easier to get them into Europe than the US. I'm surprised GB hasn't followed the 1942 example.

I do expect that a civilian airliner will be shot down within the next year or two. It will be interesting to see how attitudes change after that.

Originally posted by ToadWiz:

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Likewise thank you for putting it on the line for our country. 1973-2009, 11B, 96B, 37F, 19K, 25B, Jumpmaster, Sergeant Major, 4 combat tours.

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You're a better man then I... I didn't do any tours, I just got dropped in several 'hot' spots. I was a Combat Documentation & Production Specialist, it was you guys that made the history, I got the honor of recording it. That's not to say when the shit hits we're all 11B. Catch me in another 5-6 years (when the FIA has kicked in) & we'll share a couple of stories.