Next Xbox requires Internet connection, blocks used games?

I'd love to see a head line like... "Consumers stand up for rights, voting by refusing XB0x purchase" :)

Originally posted by SomeBozo:

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I'd love to see a head line like... "Consumers stand up for rights, voting by refusing XB0x purchase" :)

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Is Like they dont want people buying it...thats some scary info for the new xbox or whatever that can be called ewww

XBOX isn't the only console doing away with used games,.... PS4 will also feature this neato technology

are they trying to encourage people to hack their new machines?

I think any console maker that blocks used games is probably shooting themselves in the foot somewhat as it just motivates people to exploit their console so it can play used games...

big no

No. If this is true, I will NOT buy it. Ever. I'm hoping to get an Ouya and I'll take that and my 360 over the next Xbox.

I agree that a no used games "feature" will hurt both Microsoft and Sony if the two manufacturers choose to implement it. I suspect that the higher ups (who don't play games) made this decision to improve profitability.

Saying that people will just hack the consoles is not a valid argument. After all, the PS3 is over 6 years old and there still isn't a good hack available. In order to hack a PS3 you need hardware to downgrade and then install custom firmware. Not something the average user will do.

I will be getting an ouya as well and pc game if i need a newer game. I had decided in the last year consoles are dead outside of a $100 investment.

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PS4 will also feature this neato technology

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Not necessarily, all Sony did so far was trademark it so anyone else who did do this would have to pay them royalties. It hasn't been confirmed yes or no yet for MS either, so if they are considering this, there is still time to change their (each company's) minds.

Should either or both do it, the victor goes to the console maker who doesn't; the public would not stand for this intrusion. Should be an interesting gaming generation, that's for sure.

Originally posted by aw2600:

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I agree that a no used games "feature" will hurt both Microsoft and Sony if the two manufacturers choose to implement it. I suspect that the higher ups (who don't play games) made this decision to improve profitability.

Saying that people will just hack the consoles is not a valid argument. After all, the PS3 is over 6 years old and there still isn't a good hack available. In order to hack a PS3 you need hardware to downgrade and then install custom firmware. Not something the average user will do.

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Just want to correct you on this, the PS3 is fully hacked up to 4.31 without the need to downgrade with new cfw coming out every week. All new games are playable, including Dead Space 3 which we had before it was even released.


On the main subject this is such a stupid move, I wrote the same thing when there was rumors of Playstation doing this. This would kill a huge margin of their userbase, most people are just not going to shell out $60+ on a game they can beat in 6 hours. Then on top of that can't turn around and sell or trade it in, it's just not feasible. Gamestop is already in the process of closing 500 stores and this would be the final nail in the coffin..........

They are not thinking about the times when the console would need repairs ((warranty or not warranty)). The system would be reset and now YOU would have to purchase ALL the games AGAIN!!!!

Perhaps they should just stop making the OLD game CDs and just stick to online purchasing / downloads to the hard drive.

Originally posted by Bigwillyz:

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Just want to correct you on this, the PS3 is fully hacked up to 4.31 without the need to downgrade with new cfw coming out every week. All new games are playable, including Dead Space 3 which we had before it was even released.

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Care to point a member to a site that has more details? (If this doesn't violate AfterDawn policy.) In all honesty I'm not likely to hack my PS3. I'd just love to know how the process works.

Originally posted by Speedpocket:

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They are not thinking about the times when the console would need repairs ((warranty or not warranty)). The system would be reset and now YOU would have to purchase ALL the games AGAIN!!!!

Perhaps they should just stop making the OLD game CDs and just stick to online purchasing / downloads to the hard drive.

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I am sure there would be a digital certificate that follows your account not the system and your account can only be activated on a number of devices. Those devices would be allowed to play the games you have purchased. Similar to how the xbox allows you to dl a game to your hdd but you have to put the disc in to allow it to be played as a way to show u still have it. Consoles are still on their way out. There is a paradigm shift occurring in games, one from an old archetype to a new frontier that will consumers more in the drivers seat. I would bet soon games will be produced by average consumers and put on sites like youtube for anyone to play. Call it yougame. I am on to something here.

So the games will basically be 60 dollar rentals that you don't have to return. If this is indeed true, there won't be one in this house. Unfortunately, there are probably enough idiots that would buy one regardless of this.

Well that's two consoles I won't have to worry about buying.

Unless it comes direct from the console maker all rumors are to be ignored until proven otherwise

Pretty much following with the Windows 8 paradigm. Lock into the "store" and make anything else quite difficult or impossible.

This is the same thing behind the push to "mobile". A "Computer" can be made to do whatever you can imagine. A "mobile" device can only do that which is approved by the manufacturer.

This is all about control and is much bigger than just the gaming industry.

Originally posted by Morreale:

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I think any console maker that blocks used games is probably shooting themselves in the foot somewhat as it just motivates people to exploit their console so it can play used games...

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Steam is actually much worse when it comes to being able to transfer games and they have a huge following of people who love them because they can buy $5 games on sale for $3 or 2 year old games on sale for half price. Steam is coming out with a console and Xbox is looking at ways to get the same advatage that steam has somehow managed to get. Summary, they will not shoot themselves in the foot because Steam already does this profitably to PC games (soon to be a console aswell).

I don't really see them doing this, because blocking 3rd party resale has already been held to be illegal in the EU. I don't see any sane console maker kissing all of Europe goodbye.

But M$ has stepped on their collective dong often enough in the past, so *shrug* who knows?

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I don't really see them doing this, because blocking 3rd party resale has already been held to be illegal in the EU. I don't see any sane console maker kissing all of Europe goodbye.

But M$ has stepped on their collective dong often enough in the past, so *shrug* who knows?

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MS may leave the DRM out for European consoles; and just have it for Americans. Should be interesting how this plays out, from backlash to praise (cause you know some developers would praise this move).

Isn't it up to the Game maker & the software they choose to use?

Highlighting this as a Microsoft/Xbox thing is wrong in my view, they would all do it if they could
(isn't his true of some PC games now? I fully expect the Sony platform to have the same ability....again whether devs choose to use it is surely up to them?).

Hopefully the EU decision has banjaxxed this in Europe before it even begins, whatever else they do in other territories.

Originally posted by aw2600:

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Originally posted by Bigwillyz:

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Just want to correct you on this, the PS3 is fully hacked up to 4.31 without the need to downgrade with new cfw coming out every week. All new games are playable, including Dead Space 3 which we had before it was even released.

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Care to point a member to a site that has more details? (If this doesn't violate AfterDawn policy.) In all honesty I'm not likely to hack my PS3. I'd just love to know how the process works.

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Yeah of course, always willing to help a fellow gamer. Check out PSX-Scene and PS3hax, they both keep you up to date on everything related to the scene daily

well the used game thing sucks we all know that, but IF we can put an xbox game in now and make the xbox THINK the game is a retail game, then we WILL be able to make the new xbox thing its a new game. maybe not on xbox live.

oh yea an another thing on this, WHAT THE FUCK.. you will HAVE to have internet on at all times to play????? what about those who DONT have internet,. or can only have dial up, or satalite. satalite internet is NOT unlimited, and will eat up bandwidth.

im very glad m$ thought all this through.

I wont buy one i know that, not until it can be hacked. not everyone has the money to drop on brand new games, I rent alot of games before i buy them, if i dont like it, im only out 4 dallors.
there forcing us to pay full retail for EVERY game you want to play.
thats how we get screwed,

so dont be supirsed when the system gets hacked and the pirating of games is so huge they cant control it anymore.

well the used game thing sucks we all know that, but IF we can put an xbox game in now and make the xbox THINK the game is a retail game, then we WILL be able to make the new xbox thing its a new game. maybe not on xbox live.

oh yea an another thing on this, WHAT THE FUCK.. you will HAVE to have internet on at all times to play????? what about those who DONT have internet,. or can only have dial up, or satalite. satalite internet is NOT unlimited, and will eat up bandwidth.

im very glad m$ thought all this through.

I wont buy one i know that, not until it can be hacked. not everyone has the money to drop on brand new games, I rent alot of games before i buy them, if i dont like it, im only out 4 dallors.
there forcing us to pay full retail for EVERY game you want to play.
thats how we get screwed,

so dont be supirsed when the system gets hacked and the pirating of games is so huge they cant control it anymore.

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isn't his true of some PC games now?

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Some PC games used Always on DRM but found after the game released people were very mad because the service of always keeping such a security app on caused a lot of down time to accessing your game; take EA Spore and Ubisoft Creed: Brotherhood, both of those were heavily under scrutiny as pirated versions of the same apps played flawlessly with the DRM off. So as other said, people would just find a way to circumvent the system, and no doubt hacker enthusiasts will target a console such as that if nothing else it violates our right to buy/sell. Honestly I surprised the American government doesn't step in to say no before it happens, but MS has a lot of $ to use as a deterrent so basically only time will tell.

Originally posted by Bozobub:

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I don't really see them doing this, because blocking 3rd party resale has already been held to be illegal in the EU. I don't see any sane console maker kissing all of Europe goodbye.

But M$ has stepped on their collective dong often enough in the past, so *shrug* who knows?

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Boy do I hope your right, consoles almost went out the window after the Atari but was saved by the NES. We might just be to that point again with a complete gaming shift.....it's very possible

I'll believe it when I see it, with the way the economy is going now most people don't or won't have the disposable income to buy the games they do want let alone shell out bucks for games that could potentialy suck, hell, kicking out the 400 or whatever dollars to buy the console is going to be a big investment for a lot of the masses. I really think people will look at alternatives to consoles if it gets to this point, personally it will just mean better hardware upgrades for my PC. I guess only time will tell.

if your console gets busted, all games registered/associated with it are all useless. you end up buying a new console and rebuild your collection.

if you buy a game and try to return it for a refund within 1 hour (or the minimum amount of time it takes to register a game and try it out), the game becomes useless since it was registered with a unit. The consoles dont know that you are not satisfied with it.

No doubt most courts around the world would order MS to fix it with a firmware update; this won't last long as it violates the 30-day return policies most countries have.

Does nobody remember back when the specs of the PS3 were still rumours and everyone was saying that this feature would be on the PS3?

It was also noted that if console developers did this it would destroy high street game stores since the majority of the money that these stores make is actually from preowned games.

Originally posted by SmaryJerry:

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Originally posted by Morreale:

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I think any console maker that blocks used games is probably shooting themselves in the foot somewhat as it just motivates people to exploit their console so it can play used games...

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Steam is actually much worse when it comes to being able to transfer games and they have a huge following of people who love them because they can buy $5 games on sale for $3 or 2 year old games on sale for half price. Steam is coming out with a console and Xbox is looking at ways to get the same advatage that steam has somehow managed to get. Summary, they will not shoot themselves in the foot because Steam already does this profitably to PC games (soon to be a console aswell).

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Steam do aswell as they do because the deals they do are so freakin awesome. Have u ever compared the prices on the xbox and psn stores? they are so insanely expensive, even a game thats been out for years they still want full price for and the occasional sale prices are never even close to the steam sales.

I love steam but i wudnt buy a console that did this

For them to do this they would have to also lower the price on games etc... They are way to expensive as is but ofc that small idea have never popped up in their little heads as a way to also fight piracy.

Microsoft and Sony have just dug their own grave. Astonishing.

If the console manufacturers stopped allowing crappy, shovelware games we wouldn't hesitate to pay full price. Too many of the games released these days are junk. Nintendo is the worst offender. Their "seal of quality" just means that the game developer paid the high license fee.

The ONLY way they could do this would be is if the price of games dropped to no more than $10 to $20 a game at most, but i honestly don't see this happening

When I bought the PS3 I waited a few years to get one. To be exact, it was 3 years ago that I finally bought the console. Then I would wait for games to come down. I bought a used copy of black ops for $12. I pity the fools spending $60 on a game that they ended up hating and reselling for $6 or less. I never gave my credit card number and I never will. So if thats the way they want to "play" it then count me out. Its still just a game and not worth it IMO. And by the way. BO2 sucks. I still like MW2. But its obvious they dont care what the customer wants. BYE BYE.

Originally posted by Interestx:

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Isn't it up to the Game maker & the software they choose to use?

Highlighting this as a Microsoft/Xbox thing is wrong in my view, they would all do it if they could
(isn't his true of some PC games now? I fully expect the Sony platform to have the same ability....again whether devs choose to use it is surely up to them?).

Hopefully the EU decision has banjaxxed this in Europe before it even begins, whatever else they do in other territories.

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Nope, the patent specifically states an automatic, hardware tie in. I liken it to a write once NFC tag. This code can then be carried outside and before the game data stream to the processor to decide if it will be allowed to run.

They may start out with this as optional. Just passing the code through to the developers and to the online servers and letting them chose what to do with it. But all the major players are DRM lunatics who have drunk their own Kool-Aid and likely to implement. Small indies are the likely stand outs.

I agree implementing this would be stupid, but look at the attitude these companies have towards their "customers". Moronic choices like these are far from rare with them. Merely including the option will "Opt me out" of the current generation. Better not even give it the possibility, even if you leave it unimplemented.

Originally posted by Tarsellis:

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Nope, the patent specifically states an automatic, hardware tie in.

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Yeah but a patent proves nothing.
IIRC Sony took one out for exactly the same thing early on in the PS3's time.

Originally posted by Tarsellis:

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They may start out with this as optional.

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Now hang on.
It's a huge leap to move on from this to claiming it is going to be mandatory.

Originally posted by Tarsellis:

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But all the major players are DRM lunatics

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Oh I have no doubt they would all love to be (and have a situation where nobody actually owns anything & we pay a rental for every instance of use) but enough of them know this would be business suicide.

The results of the first couple of attempts will be warning enough for the nutters who refuse to accept the consumer will hate this passionately.

Besides, how are they going to cope with those who have little interest in going on-line?
Whilst on-line gaming has gotten big in recent years there's a substantial chunk of the market (whether it be kids whose parents won't let them or adults who just got bored with the fanboy BS on there) they would be cutting out if they took this path.

I'll believe it when I see it.

My bet is EA will try it and suffer the consequences, few will follow.....but ultimately it is the devs who devise the game software and the responsibility is theirs.
They do not have to walk this path.

What about the people that have slow connections. I am one of them. 0.5mb max. I am surly not the only one stuck with an extended reach phone line as the only choice.

If it does end up being true it will save me a lot of money as I just won't buy one and then won't buy any new games either. I have a lot of games for my Xbox 360s and will probably play more PC games.

The only thing that could make me consider buying one would be if they dropped the price of new games to around $20(fat chance of that).

This is awesome!!! Just think about buying a cheap MS or LIVE card now a days and having issues with it seeing the code as valid. You call MS and they read off their queue card and refuse to help.
Now multiply that by whatever the game costs!! Spend 60$ rush home, open the game, enter the coed.. EHHHH invalid code. Call MS and they give you the runaround... Might be time to hang up the gaming.

Originally posted by elbald90:

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are they trying to encourage people to hack their new machines?

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Yes they are. HACK the world! :P

Originally posted by Bigwillyz:

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Originally posted by aw2600:

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I agree that a no used games "feature" will hurt both Microsoft and Sony if the two manufacturers choose to implement it. I suspect that the higher ups (who don't play games) made this decision to improve profitability.

Saying that people will just hack the consoles is not a valid argument. After all, the PS3 is over 6 years old and there still isn't a good hack available. In order to hack a PS3 you need hardware to downgrade and then install custom firmware. Not something the average user will do.

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Just want to correct you on this, the PS3 is fully hacked up to 4.31 without the need to downgrade with new cfw coming out every week. All new games are playable, including Dead Space 3 which we had before it was even released.


On the main subject this is such a stupid move, I wrote the same thing when there was rumors of Playstation doing this. This would kill a huge margin of their userbase, most people are just not going to shell out $60+ on a game they can beat in 6 hours. Then on top of that can't turn around and sell or trade it in, it's just not feasible. Gamestop is already in the process of closing 500 stores and this would be the final nail in the coffin..........

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So true.

Originally posted by ThePastor:

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Pretty much following with the Windows 8 paradigm. Lock into the "store" and make anything else quite difficult or impossible.

This is the same thing behind the push to "mobile". A "Computer" can be made to do whatever you can imagine. A "mobile" device can only do that which is approved by the manufacturer.

This is all about control and is much bigger than just the gaming industry.

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Conspiracy?

I wouldn't say conspiracy, but it is certainly in their best interest to do this.

I don't get what all the fuss is about. It's is not like they are losing millions on pirated XBOX and Playstation games. A vast majority of gamers pay for all their games. If this is used to mess with the used game market then shame on them. I bet there will be an immediate shift of games sells from console to PC if they try this bull. A lot of games would never have gotten the fan base they have without the people that first bought the game used.

Originally posted by RickRock33:

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I don't get what all the fuss is about. It's is not like they are losing millions on pirated XBOX and Playstation games. A vast majority of gamers pay for all their games. If this is used to mess with the used game market then shame on them. I bet there will be an immediate shift of games sells from console to PC if they try this bull. A lot of games would never have gotten the fan base they have without the people that first bought the game used.

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They're not even pretending this has anything to do with "piracy". They probably know as well as we do that it would drive "piracy" higher because of the problems it would cause and the extra costs incurred.

In fact, quite the opposite. As you state, the "vast majority of gamers pay for all their games". This is aimed exactly at them. They know they have good little consumers, so the point is all about used games. They want to abuse and take advantage of these good little consumers, and make them pay more for each game.
Sorry Johnny, you can't borrow that game of Billy's that was so fun now that he beat it. Nope, you need to fork out the full new price if you want to take this home.

The problem is not only will this not work in an increasingly worse economy with increasingly scarcer disposable income. This will actually drive revenue down because the same money will create less sales and less royalties. Beyound this, there will also be a smaller base to sell to, as not an insignificant amount of people will not get the console in the first place.

Ironically I kind of hope they do implement used game blocking. This could actually give things like Steam Box and Ouya a better chance of success. Not to mention I like neither company, the content of many of the games is questionable at best and harmful at worst, any power these corporations lose can only be a good thing, and I would love to see Gamestop fold.

Wow that's it with another Microsoft product....... Who would buy this????

It's all speculation.
Even possibly a planted story in the run up to the nex Xbox being launched.
Afterall Sony already patented a similar idea early on with PS3 and nothing has come of it (yet).

The whole idea is stupid anyway, sharing encourages sales and 2nd hand games in shops encourage 'footfall'in the game retailers where new sales can be encouraged.

As I mentioned before, I expect to see a handful of attempts at this before the greedy swines see dreadful sales numbers & realise that attacking your target consumers like this is about as stupid as it get when trying to sell to people.